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Message
Any HVAC Professionals here? [Updated - Evap Coil Pics pg 4]
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:03 am
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:03 am
I'm at a loss on this issue and apparently so is my home warranty company. Been battling this HVAC mystery issue since March.
I AM NOT an HVAC guy, nor have I been a homeowner very long (1 year). So please forgive my ignorance with wording and terminology.
Background: 2 story home. Lennox XC16 Outdoor A/C Compressor (installed 2013). Home built in mid-80's. We purchased in May 2016. Spring, Texas.
Symptoms: condensation runs down the main vertical sewage/drain line in the house and drips onto ceiling in 1st floor living room. It's come thru the sheetrock ceiling. The sewage/drain line is sweating. Lennox A/C Unit loses 5-6lbs of Freon every 6 months.
We never noticed when we purchased the home in May 2017. Then after a A/C tune up we paid for, didn't notice it last summer. Now this past Spring and Summer it's been a pain in the arse and seemingly getting worse. I assume it's not a plumbing issue because it's not a problem during the late Fall / Winter / early Spring. Only a problem from May - September when we are forced to run the A/C in Houston almost 24/7.
To me and based on my father's advice it's pretty obvious a Freon leak (as evidence of losing 5-6lbs per 6 months) is causing the Lennox A/C unit to work much harder than it should. Thus causing the A/C condensate to be colder than it should be. It then drips into our main vertical sewage/drain line in the house (after a pee trap). Which causes said drain line pipe to condensate and thus the drip.
I've done all the A/C basic stuff to help things out:
- paid someone to clean compressor coils on outside unit
- keep my filters replaced early and often.
- even got some type of stuff to sprinkle into the pee trap in the attic to keep it cleaned out.
- i've paid out the arse (~$400) for Freon twice already since owning the home.
- i've followed the Freon line into the house with a spray bottle of soapy water spraying every inch and being patient for a bubble. Nothing.
Home warranty company is completely useless
$75 to send someone out and they can't find their arse with their own hands in the dark. Then talk to me and my wife like we are the fricking morons. I've been close to losing my temper multiple times with the home warranty lackies.
We really want this issue fixed, so that a) we can replace the 4 inch hole in the ceiling drywall in our fricking living room. b) stop paying a ridiculous amount for freon every 6 months c) save on electricity bill that's inflated because our a/c unit is working overtime 24/7.
I'm working on a really poorly drawn illustration to help explain this all. Can anyone help me? or does anyone have an HVAC expert they could get to give me some advice?
Thanks OT.
TL;DR, GFY; IWHI.
No pics of wife or home warranty lackies.
No this won't prevent your cruise to Punta Cana
blah blah blah.
<3 all of you, except Oweo.
I AM NOT an HVAC guy, nor have I been a homeowner very long (1 year). So please forgive my ignorance with wording and terminology.
Background: 2 story home. Lennox XC16 Outdoor A/C Compressor (installed 2013). Home built in mid-80's. We purchased in May 2016. Spring, Texas.
Symptoms: condensation runs down the main vertical sewage/drain line in the house and drips onto ceiling in 1st floor living room. It's come thru the sheetrock ceiling. The sewage/drain line is sweating. Lennox A/C Unit loses 5-6lbs of Freon every 6 months.
We never noticed when we purchased the home in May 2017. Then after a A/C tune up we paid for, didn't notice it last summer. Now this past Spring and Summer it's been a pain in the arse and seemingly getting worse. I assume it's not a plumbing issue because it's not a problem during the late Fall / Winter / early Spring. Only a problem from May - September when we are forced to run the A/C in Houston almost 24/7.
To me and based on my father's advice it's pretty obvious a Freon leak (as evidence of losing 5-6lbs per 6 months) is causing the Lennox A/C unit to work much harder than it should. Thus causing the A/C condensate to be colder than it should be. It then drips into our main vertical sewage/drain line in the house (after a pee trap). Which causes said drain line pipe to condensate and thus the drip.
I've done all the A/C basic stuff to help things out:
- paid someone to clean compressor coils on outside unit
- keep my filters replaced early and often.
- even got some type of stuff to sprinkle into the pee trap in the attic to keep it cleaned out.
- i've paid out the arse (~$400) for Freon twice already since owning the home.
- i've followed the Freon line into the house with a spray bottle of soapy water spraying every inch and being patient for a bubble. Nothing.
Home warranty company is completely useless
$75 to send someone out and they can't find their arse with their own hands in the dark. Then talk to me and my wife like we are the fricking morons. I've been close to losing my temper multiple times with the home warranty lackies.
We really want this issue fixed, so that a) we can replace the 4 inch hole in the ceiling drywall in our fricking living room. b) stop paying a ridiculous amount for freon every 6 months c) save on electricity bill that's inflated because our a/c unit is working overtime 24/7.
I'm working on a really poorly drawn illustration to help explain this all. Can anyone help me? or does anyone have an HVAC expert they could get to give me some advice?
Thanks OT.
TL;DR, GFY; IWHI.
No pics of wife or home warranty lackies.
No this won't prevent your cruise to Punta Cana
blah blah blah.
<3 all of you, except Oweo.
This post was edited on 9/19/18 at 8:16 am
19
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:04 am to Klark Kent
Get Gordon. Get it done.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:06 am to Klark Kent
quote:problem #1 or 1a
home warranty company.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:07 am to Klark Kent
A simple bikini pic can really do wonders for help
A home warranty can be tricky. I can see why some are against them
A home warranty can be tricky. I can see why some are against them
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 10:09 am
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:08 am to Klark Kent
You may have explored this avenue so sorry if this is a dumb answer...but I just bought a house with a similar problem in that there were water stains on the ceiling in the living room. A home inspection revealed that one of the coils was not fully insulated. There were 1-2 inch gaps in insulation that would condensate and drip onto the ceiling below. Maybe have someone check that? Should be obvious if that is the case tho so I can't imagine anyone worth a shite would not have found this issue
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:08 am to Klark Kent
Fire the current people. Get a new unit. Complain to Lennox that their reps are incompetent.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:13 am to scott8811
quote:
You may have explored this avenue so sorry if this is a dumb answer...but I just bought a house with a similar problem in that there were water stains on the ceiling in the living room.
there are no dumb answers or suggestions here, because i am almost completely ignorant to HVAC and i'm desperate to resolve this issue lol.
quote:
There were 1-2 inch gaps in insulation that would condensate and drip onto the ceiling below. Maybe have someone check that? Should be obvious if that is the case tho so I can't imagine anyone worth a shite would not have found this issue
the gaps in installation. you mean like the pink fluffy stuff in my attic and in between the walls?
quote:
Fire the current people. Get a new unit. Complain to Lennox that their reps are incompetent.
Well. in the normal world of an OT baller. I'm sure that is the quick and simple solution. Just replace everything right? Well, I'm not an OT Baller...so i can't throw $15k at this issue when it's likely a Freon leak causing hundreds of dollars of problems for me.
This post was edited on 9/18/18 at 10:15 am
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:14 am to Klark Kent
I'm not a professional but I've got a good bit of experience.
First off, understand that AC is a closed system. It shouldn't leak. The AC tech should be able to find your leak. Its usually in certain spots like on a connector, weld, etc. Some systems have known spots they routinely leak at.
2ndly, is your copper pipe insulated? That may be the issue. It usually is. The cold side will cause condensation if not insulated. If you have exposed copper than I'd insulate it.
Normally where it "drips" is the low spot on the pipe.
First off, understand that AC is a closed system. It shouldn't leak. The AC tech should be able to find your leak. Its usually in certain spots like on a connector, weld, etc. Some systems have known spots they routinely leak at.
2ndly, is your copper pipe insulated? That may be the issue. It usually is. The cold side will cause condensation if not insulated. If you have exposed copper than I'd insulate it.
Normally where it "drips" is the low spot on the pipe.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:15 am to Klark Kent
Look up “Lennox Evaporator Recall and Lawsuit”
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:16 am to Klark Kent
quote:
the gaps in installation. you mean like the pink fluffy stuff in my attic and in between the walls?
No the air conditioning coil itself that carries coolant (I think....I'm kind of ignorant too) should be wrapped in insulation... it's black foam that is usually held there with electrical tape
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:18 am to Klark Kent
You have 2 separate issues although they are related:
Insulate the drain line, condensate is forming from the cold water on inside of pipe vs warm air on exterior of pipe in attic / floor space. My ac drain line and p-trap is insulated in the attic until it hits the vertical, and it’s often cold in summer but not wet and dripping.
Secondly you have a Freon leak somewhere. Freon is expensive, you should fix that.
Insulate the drain line, condensate is forming from the cold water on inside of pipe vs warm air on exterior of pipe in attic / floor space. My ac drain line and p-trap is insulated in the attic until it hits the vertical, and it’s often cold in summer but not wet and dripping.
Secondly you have a Freon leak somewhere. Freon is expensive, you should fix that.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:19 am to Klark Kent
quote:
it's pretty obvious a Freon leak
Get a new HVAC company and have them fix it.
You are over thinking this issue.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:19 am to Klark Kent
Home built in the mid 80s. Has the inside unit been changed? If not, then the evaporator coil could have a leak. When it gets to the point where it no longer cools (it's lost it's 5-6 lbs) do you notice a definite reduction in air flow at the vents? If so, that means the evaporator coil has likely frozen up (solid...like a block of ice)...and when it defrosts...it could overflow the drip pan...causing more condensate to collect. Does it have a drip pan that's plumbed outside?
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:20 am to Klark Kent
I had the same issue. You are going to replace the unit. Good luck. They are the price of a used car.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:22 am to baldona
Now we are getting somewhere. Does this drawing help any?
Refrigerant line. 3/4" rubber? (i can't remember)
AC condensate pipe. 1". PVC.
Primary Home Sewage/Drain line. 2" PVC.
everything else in the house...including the freon line = copper.
Refrigerant line. 3/4" rubber? (i can't remember)
AC condensate pipe. 1". PVC.
Primary Home Sewage/Drain line. 2" PVC.
everything else in the house...including the freon line = copper.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:22 am to Klark Kent
Op, just to double check. Have you cut a hole in the ceiling and confirmed as fact which line is dripping? That needs to be your first step. Don't assume anything.
Then, as you have found out home warranties are garbage. This is what routinely happens. They try to avoid the proper repair and the service people you get are terrible.
Once you definitely find the leak, I'd call a recommended AC company and pay on your own dime to fix it. They shouldn't be replacing freon without repairing the leak first.
Then, as you have found out home warranties are garbage. This is what routinely happens. They try to avoid the proper repair and the service people you get are terrible.
Once you definitely find the leak, I'd call a recommended AC company and pay on your own dime to fix it. They shouldn't be replacing freon without repairing the leak first.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:26 am to Klark Kent
You may need to check your sewage dain line. They are not under pressure, so often times the plumber or HVAC tech that installed them may have been lazy. Since they are not under pressure people don't always glue them as well as they should since they likely hood of a leak occuring is very low.
It could very well be that your drain line needs repaired and has a leak. If its in your attic it could have had water freeze in the winter, could be a bad plumber job, could be anything.
It could very well be that your drain line needs repaired and has a leak. If its in your attic it could have had water freeze in the winter, could be a bad plumber job, could be anything.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:28 am to baldona
quote:
Op, just to double check. Have you cut a hole in the ceiling and confirmed as fact which line is dripping? That needs to be your first step. Don't assume anything.
Yes. One A/C company we paid out of pocket cut a 4' tall and 4" wide hole in a wall in the 2nd floor where the sewage/drain 2" PVC drain line is running between the walls. That vertical 2" PVC pipe is definitely sweating.
Then there is the ceiling hole where that pipe does a 90 degree turn where the drip runs off and hits the ceiling. There is a 4" hole in the ceiling you can see the 90 degree turn and dripping.
quote:
Once you definitely find the leak, I'd call a recommended AC company and pay on your own dime to fix it. They shouldn't be replacing freon without repairing the leak first.
frustrating. i've spent nearly $2k on tune-ups, warranty suggestions, etc.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:28 am to Klark Kent
I just went through AC issue with Home Warranty, and they really are idiots, and they don't cover nearly what you think they would. My upstairs unit went completely out, compressor burned out. They covered it. Cost to replace: $5K. They paid me $400.00, after depreciation. Even if they would have paid me the maximum under the policy, it was like $2K. And they never pay that, because they will ALWAYS depreciate.
For you, you have to get a licensed HVAC person out there to document that there is a freon leak. If there is no documentation of one, they will not pay to fix it.
I think your problem now is not so much the stupid worthless Warranty Company, but the fact that your actual problem has never been diagnosed. You have to get a diagnosis before you can go forward with the warranty. Once you get that, submit it to the warranty company and find out how much they will allow to fix, or replace. Don't expect much. And they will not pay a penny unless they authorize the repair prior to getting it fixed. Nothing.
Hope that helps.
For you, you have to get a licensed HVAC person out there to document that there is a freon leak. If there is no documentation of one, they will not pay to fix it.
I think your problem now is not so much the stupid worthless Warranty Company, but the fact that your actual problem has never been diagnosed. You have to get a diagnosis before you can go forward with the warranty. Once you get that, submit it to the warranty company and find out how much they will allow to fix, or replace. Don't expect much. And they will not pay a penny unless they authorize the repair prior to getting it fixed. Nothing.
Hope that helps.
Posted on 9/18/18 at 10:31 am to Festus
Good advice.
Do i go thru the warranty company to get someone to diagnose it? Or do i pay out of pocket to have an HVAC professional diagnose it?
Do i go thru the warranty company to get someone to diagnose it? Or do i pay out of pocket to have an HVAC professional diagnose it?
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