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re: Anthropologists, at what point do you believe we became sentient?
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:51 pm to bayoubengals88
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:51 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
If you want to justify it you do. You absolutely do.
No. You don't.
1
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:54 pm to Korkstand
quote:You cannot justify what you are penalizing apart from God. Interestingly you cannot provide a rationale for it apart from God.
Absolutely false. We can penalize whistling if we want to.
quote:That doesn't make it wrong. Deal with that please.
As it turns out, though, murder is highly detrimental from an evolutionary standpoint. This should be obvious. If a species makes a habit of killing itself, it would not last very long.
Aside: You don't need social conventions for murder that do you? Wouldn't there be a natural correction where the "most fit" (in this case evasive) would survive and then reproduce more "fit" humans?
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:55 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
If you want to justify it you do. You absolutely do
Justify what? Materialists living with morality? Obviously not everyone chooses to. Most do and have because that’s what they’ve been brought up in for thousands or perhaps a few million years. I think a person can see the meaning of life from an absurdist point of view yet still find value in a moral construct.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:57 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:By justify I mean providing a rational basis for it.
No you don't.
How could you do this as a materialist?
Posted on 5/11/20 at 12:58 pm to Tunasntigers92
Many animals are sentient but have no conscience. Those are two different questions, for neither of which do I have an answer.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:03 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Science can only theorize because there are no such thing as absolutes outside of God.
Science is filled with Laws.
Those aren't examples of them.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:05 pm to Salmon
Where are all of the arguments against what I proposed regarding the laws of logic?
Never thought about it?
Perhaps its the first time any of you have been approached by an argument from a Christian that made you think.
Never thought about it?
Perhaps its the first time any of you have been approached by an argument from a Christian that made you think.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:05 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:It is ridiculously easy to justify penalizing murder, theft, etc.
You cannot justify what you are penalizing apart from God. Interestingly you cannot provide a rationale for it apart from God.
I don't want you to kill me. Oh, you don't want me to kill you, either? Law.
quote:The very basic and most common morals that we share all boil down to the golden rule, which is easily derived by any conscious entity. You would be better off arguing that god is required for consciousness rather than for morality. And I wouldn't have much to say about that.
That doesn't make it wrong. Deal with that please.
quote:No, that is a very simplistic view of fitness. For some species the most evasive might be the most fit, but for humans the benefits of participating in society (not being a murderer) far outweigh the benefits of evading murderers.
Aside: You don't need social conventions for murder that do you? Wouldn't there be a natural correction where the "most fit" (in this case evasive) would survive and then reproduce more "fit" humans?
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:06 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
from a Christian that made you think.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:07 pm to bayoubengals88
I responded.
You haven't made me think anymore than the dumb redneck who thinks saying "if evolution is real then why do we still have monkeys?" is the end-all of gotchas
quote:
Perhaps its the first time any of you have been approached by an argument from a Christian that made you think.
You haven't made me think anymore than the dumb redneck who thinks saying "if evolution is real then why do we still have monkeys?" is the end-all of gotchas
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:09 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:Quite possible.
Perhaps its the first time any of you have been approached by an argument from a Christian that made you think.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:12 pm to Salmon
The other end of the spectrum is just as ignorant FWIW..
There's a reason why only like 2% of the population actually considers themselves atheists.
There's totally room for God, creator, whatever you want to it and science.
There's a reason why only like 2% of the population actually considers themselves atheists.
There's totally room for God, creator, whatever you want to it and science.
This post was edited on 5/11/20 at 1:13 pm
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:13 pm to Korkstand
Instead of saying "consciousness" I said how does one "justify" what's right and wrong using reason.
Which is to basically say "consciousness."
Because laws against it exists. Laws that are based on a universal lawgiver. Things are wrong because God determined that they are. There is no other basis from which to argue.
Because for the materialist there is no "right and wrong." For the materialist to claim "right and wrong" he must reach out of materialism and into immaterialism, i.e. God.
Which is to basically say "consciousness."
quote:
but for humans the benefits of participating in society (not being a murderer) far outweigh the benefits of evading murderers.
Because laws against it exists. Laws that are based on a universal lawgiver. Things are wrong because God determined that they are. There is no other basis from which to argue.
Because for the materialist there is no "right and wrong." For the materialist to claim "right and wrong" he must reach out of materialism and into immaterialism, i.e. God.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:13 pm to bayoubengals88
There is not one standard definition of morality.
It is without question that all recorded societies have had some concept of morality, and all have been different. Every current society on Earth has different standards of morality, that were different 10 years ago and 50 years ago.
All one has to do is look at the Bible to see how morality has changed drastically over time, from the Old Testament to the New to now.
Morality is a human construct based on the minds of the community overall. It shifts and changes over time.
It is without question that all recorded societies have had some concept of morality, and all have been different. Every current society on Earth has different standards of morality, that were different 10 years ago and 50 years ago.
All one has to do is look at the Bible to see how morality has changed drastically over time, from the Old Testament to the New to now.
Morality is a human construct based on the minds of the community overall. It shifts and changes over time.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:13 pm to lsut2005
I don't consider myself an atheist FWIW
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:15 pm to Salmon
quote:You're too embarrassed to allow yourself to think about such propositions. It's ok.
You haven't made me think anymore than the dumb redneck who thinks saying "if evolution is real then why do we still have monkeys?" is the end-all of gotchas
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:15 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Because laws against it exists. Laws that are based on a universal lawgiver. Things are wrong because God determined that they are. There is no other basis from which to argue.
why does God constantly change his laws?
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:16 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
Things are wrong because God determined that they are.
Do you have any real evidence to support this?
One could also say, that leaders of men needed the concept of "God" or "Gods" to make sure that society as a whole would follow mutually beneficial concepts of morality like "don't murder".
Societies predating "God" had morality.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:16 pm to bayoubengals88
quote:
You're too embarrassed to allow yourself to think about such propositions. It's ok.
I'm embarrassed that you think you are saying anything profound.
You are not. You simply believe in the God of Gaps. That's it.
Posted on 5/11/20 at 1:22 pm to Salmon
Hmmm what do you mean by this??
There is a large body of indirect evidence for a creators existence, like a universe that came into existence from nothing, the naturalistically implausible appearance of fine-tuning in the universe, the miraculous origin of life from inorganic matter, and the improbable existence of information in DNA. All this indirect evidence is most reasonably explained by a creator .
There is a large body of indirect evidence for a creators existence, like a universe that came into existence from nothing, the naturalistically implausible appearance of fine-tuning in the universe, the miraculous origin of life from inorganic matter, and the improbable existence of information in DNA. All this indirect evidence is most reasonably explained by a creator .
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