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re: An idea for those who feel "oppressed" by the laws of our country

Posted on 3/27/17 at 1:57 pm to
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138932 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

More so, the systemic issues we face as a country when it comes to drug laws, private prisons, etc

What about murder laws? Are they the reason AA's commit almost half the murders in this country?
Posted by public_enemy
Member since Feb 2015
5134 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 1:57 pm to
Please go into more detail about drug laws before I reply to your statement
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 1:58 pm to
quote:

When someone says this is the worst place on earth and we're what's wrong with the world yet they stay here, it makes me question just how much they really mean what they say.



I mean, as much as I am sick of the bullshite, it's still where my life is. Where my family is. My friends.

Just because you question the norm, and have things to bitch about, it doesn't mean you should run away.

quote:

Case in point - celebrities claiming to move if Trump wins. Those people have the means to move anywhere in the world but they didn't. That's because they know they've got it better here than anywhere else on earth.



now obviously it's different if you flat out say your'e going to move if XYZ happens, and then don't. But that's not what the OP is referring to in his initial post.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138932 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 1:59 pm to
quote:


I don't think it's the worst place in the world in any sense. But for some people to say it's the best often do so blindly, without having any idea as to what exactly we lead the world in

I'm not implying we're perfect, I'm just saying that I think we're the top of the mark as a whole.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138932 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

I mean, as much as I am sick of the bullshite, it's still where my life is. Where my family is. My friends.

Just because you question the norm, and have things to bitch about, it doesn't mean you should run away.


I'm not saying you should run away. I'm saying if you think we need to change the fundamental foundations of America, then why bother staying here?


quote:

now obviously it's different if you flat out say your'e going to move if XYZ happens, and then don't. But that's not what the OP is referring to in his initial post


I'm saying if the people with the means and luxury to leave are the most outspoken critics, yet they still want to stay, then maybe what they're bitching about is insignificant.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
21764 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

I think we're the top of the mark as a whole.


I'm sure you could average a bunch of numbers together and make that argument based on a composite score of some kind. But the catch is today some other countries could do something similar depending on what you/they think is most important.

Is life expectancy more important than lifetime earning? Is incarceration rate more important than overall crime rates? Is overall happiness more important than material wealth?
Posted by public_enemy
Member since Feb 2015
5134 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:05 pm to
Your second statement is what I was agreeing with. About having means to leave but choose not to.

So how do we fix that section of the question?
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:05 pm to
What do you mean go into detail about drug laws? I think it's pretty self explanatory. We incarcerate far too many people for selling drugs. Our prisons are over populated, many of them by design as they are privately run, and it has become a business to continually put poor people behind bars for selling something to a willing customer.

This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:08 pm
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138932 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

I'm sure you could average a bunch of numbers together and make that argument based on a composite score of some kind. But the catch is today some other countries could do something similar depending on what you/they think is most important.

Is life expectancy more important than lifetime earning? Is incarceration rate more important than overall crime rates? Is overall happiness more important than material wealth?


I think freedom and opportunity are the major factors in determining value. Opportunity is more important than outcome.
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

I'm not saying you should run away. I'm saying if you think we need to change the fundamental foundations of America, then why bother staying here?



I don't see very many people bitching about the fundamental foundation. Things have changed.

quote:

I'm saying if the people with the means and luxury to leave are the most outspoken critics, yet they still want to stay, then maybe what they're bitching about is insignificant.



I don't think them not living up to their tweet about leaving makes, say, their views on big money in politics insignificant.
Posted by public_enemy
Member since Feb 2015
5134 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:08 pm to
Something that is illegal by our laws? I don't get what you don't understand about that. Drugs are illegal. Illegal equals prison. Selling drugs is illegal and SHOULD result in incarceration until said drug is made legal. Once it is, it should be industrialized and create a legal market just like anything else. Standards should be met at places of business in order to ensure consumer safety. But for now, no matter if you agree or not, drugs are illegal in most states, including Louisiana

Are you saying African Americans are thrown in jail for breaking the law? Because that isn't a race thing or anything, white people are too. Hispanics asians etc.
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138932 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:12 pm to
quote:


I don't see very many people bitching about the fundamental foundation. Things have changed

Many kids on college campuses today say it's OK to silence people who may say something that offends them. They want the first ammendment to be a sliding scale, not an absolute. That should trouble everyone.

quote:

I don't think them not living up to their tweet about leaving makes, say, their views on big money in politics insignificant.


It's a very easy example and shows just how good this country is to them.

I have gripes about money in politics too. But the more we see the left's solutions, the more money we see going to politicians and government entities
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:14 pm
Posted by Nado Jenkins83
Land of the Free
Member since Nov 2012
66109 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

the systemic issues we face as a country when it comes to drug laws, private prisons, etc




Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

What about murder laws? Are they the reason AA's commit almost half the murders in this country?



It's cyclical. Maybe prisons should be used as a form of punishment, but with the end goal being to actually rehabilitate those that have the capabilities to change. As opposed to packing them in like sardines and letting them murder each other.

It doesn't help that education in urban areas is dogshit too. I was lucky to go from a hood arse school to a small town in TN school, and it was amazing the difference in education I received. I honestly don't know how some of my old classmates made it to/through college.
Posted by AwesomeSauce
Das Boot
Member since May 2015
11455 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

put people behind bars for selling something to a willing customer.


While I think more lax drug laws are needed, this is a bad argument. My 15 yr old nephew is a willing customer for a case of beer. If someone sells it to him they will be arrested and the business they work for fined and they will be under heavy scrutiny. A willing consumer is not a fair argument. Complaining about getting arrested or the pitfalls of conducting an illegal business or possessing an illegal substance is stupid. You can fight the laws and support research and try to make change, but drug dealers and consumers know the risk going in.
Posted by JOJO Hammer
Member since Nov 2010
12405 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

An idea for those who feel "oppressed" by the laws of our country


In all of your rambling you did not say what your idea is.
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:13 pm to


My argument is that our drug laws need changing and your argument is that drugs are illegal.

quote:

Are you saying African Americans are thrown in jail for breaking the law? Because that isn't a race thing or anything, white people are too. Hispanics asians etc.



No, I'm saying the laws should be changed and we shouldn't privatize incarcerating people.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
21764 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

think freedom and opportunity are the major factors in determining value.


Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the growth of Big Brother is in direct contrast to freedom. Couple that with the WOD, asset forfeiture, lowering DWI thresholds... and toss in the facts that our courts and legislature see no need to rein it in gives me pause about how that freedom will grow anytime soon.

In addition, affordable education opportunity has been shrinking continually for some time, ironically moreso in northern states than southern- mostly because the amount of property taxes you pay directly impacts the quality of education you receive. In other words the likelihood of someone receiving a good education in Harlem pales to that someone receiving a good education in Westchester.

Like I said I think we're up there, but I'm not completely convinced we're at the too. Though deciding who's at the top has more to do with what's important to you.
Posted by public_enemy
Member since Feb 2015
5134 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:15 pm to
Because they didn't make excuses and actually worked hard, a moral standard lost in today's time.

Murder in cold blood isn't cyclical, it's immoral. That's a pretty bad cop out.

Prisons are intended to be rehabilitation centers. Sit in a cell and think about what you did. Don't wanna risk being murdered in prison? Don't put yourself in a situation that could land you in jail. It's simple
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
72160 posts
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:16 pm to
Your 15 year old nephew can't buy weed in legal areas though now can he? That's the point. Making something illegal makes it a commodity on the black market, and also raises the cost of said illegal substance. When it gets too expensive, substitutes are created (think crack). And so on, and so on..
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