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Message
re: An idea for those who feel "oppressed" by the laws of our country
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:16 pm to cas4t
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:16 pm to cas4t
quote:
It's cyclical. Maybe prisons should be used as a form of punishment, but with the end goal being to actually rehabilitate those that have the capabilities to change. As opposed to packing them in like sardines and letting them murder each other.
I'm not talking about prison murders.
quote:
It doesn't help that education in urban areas is dogshit too. I was lucky to go from a hood arse school to a small town in TN school, and it was amazing the difference in education I received. I honestly don't know how some of my old classmates made it to/through college.
I'm sure urban schools aren't the best, but education is dependent on parental involvement which is a problem in urban areas. There's no amount of money or government programs that can fix that.
1
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:19 pm to cas4t
I understand your argument, but for the time being it's voided out by the simple fact that drugs are illegal. Does it need changing? Yes. However, until that is done, you purchasing or buying drugs I.e. Weed, heroin, meth, is illegal and can result in jail time.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:21 pm to public_enemy
quote:
Sit in a cell and think about what you did
this isn't rehabilitation.
quote:
Prisons are intended to be rehabilitation centers. Sit in a cell and think about what you did. Don't wanna risk being murdered in prison? Don't put yourself in a situation that could land you in jail. It's simple
No, it's not so simple. You are a product of what you grow up around, period. Some break away from it, but many fall into the trap/cycle. I've seen it first hand. I'm not making excuses for murder; my own brother was murdered.
But you are attempting to simplify a very complex subject. I mean, I just made a comment about our drug laws needing reform, and your argument was that drugs are illegal.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:22 pm to public_enemy
quote:
understand your argument, but for the time being it's voided out by the simple fact that drugs are illegal
The real problem is that the people making the laws are indentured to the ones enforcing the law.
There's too much money to be lost by ending the WOD for it to end without them kicking and screaming about lost funds.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:22 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the growth of Big Brother is in direct contrast to freedom. Couple that with the WOD, asset forfeiture, lowering DWI thresholds... and toss in the facts that our courts and legislature see no need to rein it in gives me pause about how that freedom will grow anytime soon.
I agree that those are serious problems, but I'm saying we have more opportunity and freedom here as a whole. Not a whole lot of places in the world where you can own guns, openly criticize the government, say controversial and offensive things without getting fined or arrested, get free education, and be guaranteed food and shelter if you need it all in the same country.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:25 pm to public_enemy
nvm
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:25 pm to public_enemy
quote:
I understand your argument, but for the time being it's voided out by the simple fact that drugs are illegal. Does it need changing? Yes. However, until that is done, you purchasing or buying drugs I.e. Weed, heroin, meth, is illegal and can result in jail time.
I mean, obviously I understand this. Again, I don't see your point. This has nothing to do with growing up in an environment where maybe the only thing you know is how to sell drugs, because your dad does it, your uncles do it, your friends do it, etc..
Many of these people aren't like what's reflected on TV. They are just people trying to make some money so they can eat. If you haven't been around this, it's hard to understand. It's very easy to fall into that trap. I've known a few that got out and even more that didn't. It's not making excuses, it's attempting to understand how all of it started.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:26 pm to cas4t
quote:
Your 15 year old nephew can't buy weed in legal areas though now can he?
He cannot purchase or possess alcohol or weed. He is a more than willing customer to either and he and the person who sold/gave him either would face consequences .
quote:
Making something illegal makes it a commodity on the black market, and also raises the cost of said illegal substance. When it gets too expensive, substitutes are created (think crack).
No shite?!? I take it you did not read my post, but rather jumped on the only talking point you thought you had an intelligent remark to. I'm not discussing whether we need more lax drug laws or not. We do. My premise is that if you conduct illegal activity (whether you morally find it ok or not) has repercussions. Complaining about people who knew the risks and decided to take the chance is not a good argument for drug laws. Your comments about the secondary market and substitutes, along with taxes, control (laced/bad synthetic), and the hit to groups who rely on the US populous a la the Cartel are far more compelling for your case.
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:27 pm to cas4t
If my dad drinks uncontrollably as I'm growing up, which he did. It doesn't mean I'm going to turn into an alcoholic (which I haven't)
Your second point is what I was trying to get out of you.
Your second point is what I was trying to get out of you.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:28 pm to cas4t
quote:
Many of these people aren't like what's reflected on TV. They are just people trying to make some money so they can eat. If you haven't been around this, it's hard to understand. It's very easy to fall into that trap. I've known a few that got out and even more that didn't. It's not making excuses, it's attempting to understand how all of it started.
The ultimate question is what do you want me to do about it? At the end of the day, there's only one person who can decide whether to pursue a life of crime or not and it ain't me or you.
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:30 pm to upgrayedd
You and I seem to see eye to eye on the subject. we both believe in self accountability
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:30 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I'm not talking about prison murders.
I wasn't either. There are programs and some actual prisons that actually attempt to rehabilitate their inmates so they can eventually get a job and be a functioning, tax paying member of society. That's good for everyone. Those people may not go back out on the streets and murder again. Idk, but clearly what we have now isn't working.
quote:
I'm sure urban schools aren't the best, but education is dependent on parental involvement which is a problem in urban areas. There's no amount of money or government programs that can fix that.
mom and dad went to the same damn school with the same shitty teachers in a lot of cases. Again, it's cyclical.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:30 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
agree that those are serious problems, but I'm saying we have more opportunity and freedom here as a whole. Not a whole lot of places in the world where you can own guns, openly criticize the government, say controversial and offensive things without getting fined or arrested, get free education, and be guaranteed food and shelter if you need it all in the same country.
Europe would be the closest, though you can't own guns in most countries easily, but the also have other things we don't- longer life expectancy, less crime, and less people incarcerated. Some (not all) outperform US students on standardized testing. They also are much better about burning everything down when they disagree with their govt too, so there's that. Of course they pay higher taxes and get the pluses and minuses of socialized medicine, even if it means longer life expectancy on average.
There's plenty of reasons for all of those (homogenized population for one - though that's changing now...)
Like I said, it's really up to different people making different judgements on what's important. For example, the lack of a second amendment may be a good reason not to move to France, even though chances are you'll never need it there as compared to here.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I agree that those are serious problems, but I'm saying we have more opportunity and freedom here as a whole
Eh, we've fallen on the freedom index. I'd say it's certainly under attack.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:31 pm to public_enemy
So what you gathered from my posts is that i'm against self accountability? please elaborate
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:32 pm to public_enemy
quote:
You and I seem to see eye to eye on the subject. we both believe in self accountability
Well, I belive in giving people the best opportunity possible, but I can't make decisions for these people.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:35 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
The ultimate question is what do you want me to do about it?
try to look at it out of a different lens, and realize that not every situation is what it seems. Instead of just blaming black people, try to understand why these things are the way they are. Ask questions. The more people do that, things will change.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:36 pm to cas4t
You seem to be in the corner of "you are what you came from" citing the child seeing his father as a drug dealer.
I disagree with you. And even gave you a piece of personal information about my father being an alcoholic. People can rise above their current status with effort and determination. You are saying people are crippled by where they grow up. I'm saying people can use that as motivation.
I do enjoy this back and forth with you cas4t. I just think we disagree on a few things and it's nice to see different perspectives
I disagree with you. And even gave you a piece of personal information about my father being an alcoholic. People can rise above their current status with effort and determination. You are saying people are crippled by where they grow up. I'm saying people can use that as motivation.
I do enjoy this back and forth with you cas4t. I just think we disagree on a few things and it's nice to see different perspectives
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:36 pm to cas4t
quote:
wasn't either. There are programs and some actual prisons that actually attempt to rehabilitate their inmates so they can eventually get a job and be a functioning, tax paying member of society. That's good for everyone. Those people may not go back out on the streets and murder again. Idk, but clearly what we have now isn't working.
I agree we need serious prison reform. But prison isn't the only place where people pick up the idea that murder is a viable solution to conflict.
quote:
mom and dad went to the same damn school with the same shitty teachers in a lot of cases. Again, it's cyclical.
And you, I, or a million government programs can't force them to break that cycle
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:37 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Well, I belive in giving people the best opportunity possible, but I can't make decisions for these people.
Of course. But surely we can agree we don't live in a world where a black kid born in Gary, IN is getting the best opportunity possible. He's starting off well behind the 8 ball. I'm not making excuses for him, because I'm a good example of someone who got the frick out of some really really bad situations. But it took a lot of help.
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