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re: Alec Baldwin Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter in ‘Rust’ Shooting (OP Updated)
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:59 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Posted on 1/19/23 at 12:59 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
damn, definitely didn't think he'd be charged. i wonder if he takes it to trial
Between his criminal negligence and the negligence of his own production company (who hired armored and ran the production)….I hope he feels the consequences here. Clearly there is a cultural problem in that industry on multiple levels, including the safety and well being of production employees.
Nobody should have to worry about dying at work because some spoiled, irresponsible man-child decides to start fooling around with a loaded gun.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:02 pm
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Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:01 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
He's an actor not a gun expert a normal person can't tell the difference between live ammo and blanks. i don't care if Baldwin was a conservative they had someone hired to prevent this and they didn't do their job.
Then he should probably learn the difference before he goes firing off guns at people. Just a thought
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:01 pm to TigerIron
quote:
While they are doing that another guy decides he's going to do some "air sawing" to show how he's going to saw the boards; no one asked him to do that and the people setting up don't know he's about to do that. Then, he fricks up and cuts off the head of one of the set-up guys
Yeah that's the same as practicing drawing a revolver from a holster for a scene in a western movie... jeez.
I'm not saying he wasn't careless, but come on.
There shouldn't have been any live ammo on the set. Period. And if he hired the person who is responsible for that, I would say they are both at fault.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:03 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
He's an actor not a gun expert a normal person can't tell the difference between live ammo and blanks. i don't care if Baldwin was a conservative they had someone hired to prevent this and they didn't do their job.
If he’s handling a real gun on set, he damn well needs to learn how to safely operate it. I honestly can’t believe his little second rate production could be insurable without mandatory safety courses.
Him being in actor doesn’t excuse him from being a responsible adult. It’s still a gun.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:09 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
Partially. He's a notoriously crappy dude who demonizes regular people for going against progressive orthodoxy and he killed a woman.
He’s an adult that is blaming someone else for him shooting someone. That’s so fricked up.
It’s a gun on a crowded set. It’s everyone’s responsibility to make sure it’s safe - especially the guy handling it.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:13 pm to dewster
quote:
If he’s handling a real gun on set, he damn well needs to learn how to safely operate it. I honestly can’t believe his little second rate production could be insurable without mandatory safety courses.
Him being in actor doesn’t excuse him from being a responsible adult. It’s still a gun.
I agree, with a caveat. There's a guy on r/law who claims to have 20 years experience working in film, specifically being familiar with firearm safety on set. He said that typical procedure is for the armorer to inspect the weapon, witnessed by the actor who's going to use it. The armorer declares it clear for whatever the purpose of the scene is, then hands it over.
If Baldwin didn't go through this process, and it sounds like he didn't based on what we know, then I can easily see it being argued as negligence or recklessness.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:13 pm to member12
Looks like he is facing over 6 years in prison
The first charge can be referred to simply as involuntary manslaughter. For this charge to be proved there must be underlying negligence. Under New Mexico law, involuntary manslaughter is a fourth-degree felony and is punishable by up to 18 months in jail and a $5,000 fine. This charge also includes the misdemeanor charge of negligent use of a firearm, which would likely merge as a matter of law.
The other charge is involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act. This charge requires proof that there was more than simple negligence involved in a death. This is also a fourth-degree felony punishable by up to 18 months in jail and up to a $5,000 fine. This charge includes a firearm enhancement, or added mandatory penalty, because a firearm was involved. The firearm enhancement makes the crime punishable by a mandatory five years in jail.
LINK
The first charge can be referred to simply as involuntary manslaughter. For this charge to be proved there must be underlying negligence. Under New Mexico law, involuntary manslaughter is a fourth-degree felony and is punishable by up to 18 months in jail and a $5,000 fine. This charge also includes the misdemeanor charge of negligent use of a firearm, which would likely merge as a matter of law.
The other charge is involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act. This charge requires proof that there was more than simple negligence involved in a death. This is also a fourth-degree felony punishable by up to 18 months in jail and up to a $5,000 fine. This charge includes a firearm enhancement, or added mandatory penalty, because a firearm was involved. The firearm enhancement makes the crime punishable by a mandatory five years in jail.
LINK
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:16 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Yeah that's the same as practicing drawing a revolver from a holster for a scene in a western movie... jeez.
I'm not saying he wasn't careless, but come on.
It's only different in that what Baldwin did was *more* dangerous. He was two feet away from those people and he pulled a real gun and pointed it at their heads, while they were doing something else. And then he pulled the fricking trigger. Even if the gun had had blanks or dummy rounds in it, he could have deafened or blinded them.
You're playing word games and being cagey about it, but it seems like you actually think he didn't really do anything wrong (or at least seriously wrong) on the day of the shooting. Which is ridiculous.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:42 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:18 pm to jmarto1
quote:
Shouldn't an armorer/safety position check the equipment before and then turn over to the actor?
Of course. She's being charged as well.
quote:
If I'm the actor then I am there to act and should trust that the person checking the equipment did their job
Wrong. Basic firearm safety says this isn't safe. It's a REAL firearm. The rounds aren't SUPPOSED to be. But as the end user, it's your job to check the status of ANY firearm given to you. First, is the chamber open and empty? If not, open chamber to check with your own eyes. Loaded or unloaded? If loaded, is this the correct ammunition for the certain firearm. If not, secure the weapon and keep it pointed in a safe direction (which should be done at all times including while performing these checks).
This is all elementary firearms handling safety stuff.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:19 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Yeah that's the same as practicing drawing a revolver from a holster for a scene in a western movie... jeez.
I'm not saying he wasn't careless, but come on.
If he was "rehearsing" as you claim, why even pull the trigger? Are are you regurgitating his "the gun shite itself" defense?
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:26 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:That's the real issue.
Had he not been the manager/producer, would he be charged?
He's responsible because he was responsible for having the right people in place to ensure the safety.
If he was solely an actor and not the manager/producer, I'd think the person who was responsible for that piece would be more responsible than the person pulling the trigger IMO.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:26 pm to TigerIron
quote:
You're playing word games and being cagey about it, but it seems like you actually think like he really do anything wrong (or at least seriously wrong) on the day of the shooting. Which is ridiculous.
No, what I'm saying is I don't think the guy was just goofing off, fricking around, and being a showoff to amuse himself and others.
I think he was practicing for the scene they were trying to shoot.
One where he draws the gun from the holster and points it at the camera, that they are sitting behind to film it, and is maybe even supposed to pull the trigger (cause that's the way it sounds the scene was to be done).
I don't think he did anything wrong in those actions if that is the scene they were shooting (which is what Ive read they were doing). He has to do those actions for the shot.
The mistake was made by him and the armorer by letting live ammo on the set, letting live ammo be put in the gun, and then not checking it.
It was obviously a close up camera shot. It was being done from two feet away. Probably zoomed in on the gun and his face.
Probably something like this and supposed to have dummy rounds in the chambers.
They shouldn't have even been using a real gun or at least not one with a firing pin.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:34 pm to TigerIron
quote:quote:
quote:
this board wants him charged because he's a liberal.
he's an actor who was handed a loaded gun by a prop master who assured him it was safe for use. he's not at fault.
under the law no live ammunition was allowed on set, somehow that's Baldwin's fault...
No one was charged in the death of Brandon Lee, same thing.
Not even close.
Crew people were taking the set gun and using it for live-fire target practice.
They had already had multiple misfire "accidents" on set.
Someone said the gun was clear, but no one showed the director or the actor it was clear, as is common to do. Also, the armorer did not hand the gun to Baldwin. The assistant director did. The armorer also did not hand the gun to the assistant director; the assistant director grabbed it off a table. That is, at minimum, not best practice.
It's also standard practice that no one--not an actor, not a crew person--is actually in the "line of fire" where a gun is pointing, even if the gun is clear or full of blanks.
At the time of the shooting, Baldwin wasn't supposed to be pointing the gun at the camera. The cameras weren't rolling, and he was "practicing" on his own. And he never should have been pointing the gun at a crew person. If she was in his line of fire during a "take," then he should have yelled at her to get out of the way or waited for the director to do that. But, again, this was not during a take, and it's likely that the victim had no idea he was about to point the gun at her.
Finally, Baldwin was a producer with responsibility for the set, so he knew or should have known all of the above things.
Baldwin picked up the gun, and pointed it at a human, and pulled the trigger. He did that at a time when no one had told him to do that, or was expecting him to do that, on a set that had already had multiple misfires, with a crew that was using the prop gun for target practice, on a production for which he was a producer who was responsible for the production.
That's plenty to charge him with involuntary manslaughter.
This is probably the best summary of the events that I have seen, Baldwin is responsible because he: broke protocol, pulled the trigger, lied about it, and as producer was responsible for the picture.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:36 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
a normal person can't tell the difference between live ammo and blanks.
It's easier if you just say you don't know what you're talking about.
Every "live" cartridge has a bullet at the end. Every "blank" cartridge has a simple crimp or wax seal. This is an example of live vs blank rounds in the scary "Assault Rifle" caliber, guess which one is real:
I don't think you have to be a gun expert to know.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:36 pm to NATidefan
quote:
It was still rehearsal for a scene and practice for the scene. It was just careless and unsafe.
It wasn't rehearsal. It was him being careless with a loaded weapon. He aimed a loaded gun at someone and killed them. He didn't point it at a camera, he pointed it at her.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:37 pm to Byron Bojangles III
quote:
he's an actor who was handed a loaded gun by a prop master who assured him it was safe for use. he's not at fault.
He was handed a gun. Regardless of what someone else says, he should check the gun.
quote:
under the law no live ammunition was allowed on set, somehow that's Baldwin's fault...
There were previously accounts of live rounds being in set. As the producer of the film he is, in fact, responsible for everything that happens on set.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:43 pm to IAmNERD
That's not how you tell movie set dummy rounds from live rounds. That's how you tell blanks from live rounds.
Here is how you tell movie set dummy rounds from live rounds.
Article about what armorer should have checked
Here is how you tell movie set dummy rounds from live rounds.
quote:
As Steve explains, it's pretty simple to spot the difference with the naked eye ... dummy rounds have a dimpled primer on the bottom, something live ammunition does not.
Article about what armorer should have checked
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:48 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
It wasn't rehearsal. It was him being careless with a loaded weapon. He aimed a loaded gun at someone and killed them. He didn't point it at a camera, he pointed it at her.
It was rehearsal. I'm not saying he isn't at fault, but stop saying it isn't something it was. He was rehearsing a scene and pointed a gun with live ammo at someone and shot them, while rehearsing a scene.
He should have checked the gun and made sure they were dummy bullets and not live rounds, before performing/rehearsing the scene.
God, some of y'all act like this was on a gun range or something. People get guns pointed at them in movies all the time.
They put them right up to people's heads and pull the trigger.
The mistakes made involved letting a real gun be used for the scene with real ammo in it.
This post was edited on 1/19/23 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:53 pm to NATidefan
quote:
That's not how you tell movie set dummy rounds from live rounds. That's how you tell blanks from live rounds
So, still a visual (and according to your source) audible difference? That wasn't checked by the safety personnel or the end user?
Got it.
Posted on 1/19/23 at 1:54 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
This is the right charge. I had a neighbor growing up who got a homemade firework from a coworker than ended up going off like a pipe bomb and killing his nephew. He was charged with the same thing. Got a suspended sentence and got to live with that for the rest of his life. I think we'll see the same thing here except Baldwin is probably to much of a smug douche to have any real remorse.
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