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Message

re: 20 year old sex abuse victim in Holland euthanized

Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:45 pm to
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74595 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

Try reading the rest of the article.

Just because it happened after that, doesn't mean it happened because of that


I read the whole article. The girl wanted to die. The doctors said she was hopeless and the decided dying was best for her. After that, they killed her. End of story.
Posted by Stacked
Member since Apr 2012
5675 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:47 pm to
You forgot the part where she chooses herself to die. The biggest part really.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74595 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

quote:
The woman, in her twenties, was given a lethal injection after doctors and psychiatrists decided that her post-traumatic stress disorder and other conditions were incurable


See, the word "decided" here isn't saying the doctor's "decided to kill her". It's saying "the event was carried out by the girl's decision, after hearing the doctor's prognosis that what she was dealing with, they could not ever stop."


Whoever taught you to read should be fired.
Posted by lsunurse
Member since Dec 2005
129146 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Your religious beliefs should never outweigh the patient's wishes


I should have the right to refuse to be that patient's nurse and have someone else assigned to care for that patient if the care involves something that goes against my personal beliefs. I shouldn't be penalized for this. Especially since it likely would be nothing at all for someone else that doesn't morally object to care for the patient.




Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38229 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

But the idea of allowing doctors to decide someone should die, especially a mentally ill person, is a terrible mistake


not talking about doctors signing off on suicide, I'm talking about a Kevorkian moment where the doctor helps the patient take their own life. To your point, I agree mental illness is a bit more challenging as we don't know enough about the mind (yet) to say an individual is "hopeless".

but a terminally ill cancer patient, 80YO, facing a miserable death (or more miserable chemo) should have the right to end their life with medical assistance if they so choose.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
104454 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

The doctors said she was hopeless and the decided dying was best for her.


No, they decided that she was competent to make her own decision.
Posted by ManBearTiger
BRLA
Member since Jun 2007
22670 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

Should have given her shrooms and LSD.



In all seriousness, these things or MDMA have been proven to be incredibly potent in fighting depression when prescribed/used responsibly and with guidance
Posted by NoHoTiger
So many to kill, so little time
Member since Nov 2006
46209 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:49 pm to
quote:

The girl wanted to die. The doctors said she was hopeless and the decided dying was best for her. After that, they killed her. End of story.

Doesn't matter. It still her decision to make. She was found competent to make the decision. Not agreeing with her decision does not make her incompetent to make the decision. Doctors can disagree with stopping chemo or any other treatment therapy. They can think that there is hope and a "statistically significant likelihood" of improvement. It is still the patient's decision to make. Disagreeing with something does not make it wrong.

The doctors did not decide that dying was best for her. They decided that she was capable of making that decision and carried out her wishes. Quite frankly, that is the best that anyone should be able to hope for. That when given all the information, the patient makes an informed, competent decision and that decision is respected and carried out.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45991 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:49 pm to
and what is wrong with that?
Posted by CadesCove
Mounting the Woman
Member since Oct 2006
40828 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

but a terminally ill cancer patient, 80YO, facing a miserable death (or more miserable chemo) should have the right to end their life with medical assistance if they so choose.


While I am more understanding of this decision, herein lies the beginning of the slope. How old is old enough? How sick is sick enough?
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74595 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

You forgot the part where she chooses herself to die. The biggest part really.


I have no issue with someone who wishes to die killing themselves, at least if they're of sound mind which is at best debatable in this instance. It's sad and tragic, but ultimately their choice.

The problem arises when doctors are involved in the decision and implementation.
Posted by NoHoTiger
So many to kill, so little time
Member since Nov 2006
46209 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

I should have the right to refuse to be that patient's nurse and have someone else assigned to care for that patient if the care involves something that goes against my personal beliefs.

That's fine, don't care for the patient. But, your personal beliefs have no place in the clinical treatment of another person.
Posted by Stacked
Member since Apr 2012
5675 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

How old is old enough? How sick is sick enough


How about let everyone decide for themselves? Why should you have to be sick if it's a right you have? It would actually help things.
This post was edited on 5/11/16 at 1:53 pm
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74595 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:53 pm to
This thread reminds me of the old saying "those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
Posted by dgnx6
Member since Feb 2006
91604 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

the mentally ill should be given the right to decide to end their life? What happens if their so mentally ill they can't make the decision for themselves and their doctors, as in this case, all agree there's no hope for a cure? Can the doctors decide for them? 



She wasn't mentally ill before. She prob still cognisant of her actions.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
104454 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

This thread reminds me of the old saying "those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".


Your attempt to connect this to Nazi concentration camps is comical.

No one died that didn't choose themselves to die.
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38229 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

While I am more understanding of this decision, herein lies the beginning of the slope. How old is old enough? How sick is sick enough?


agreed. My opinion is shaped by witnessing a coworker die from cancer- and the treatment intended to cure his cancer. After seeing that poor fellow's suffering and wretched physical/mental condition at the end, I suddenly became more open to the idea of doctor assisted suicide.
Posted by 225bred
COYS
Member since Jun 2011
21085 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:55 pm to
Why can't we be like Europe!?1?!1
They're soo civil and proper.

/s
Posted by CadesCove
Mounting the Woman
Member since Oct 2006
40828 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

The doctors did not decide that dying was best for her. They decided that she was capable of making that decision and carried out her wishes.


In her case, it seems like asking a guy who just won a drinking contest whether or not he's sober enough to drive home. Mentally ill people making decisions about their physical well-being is not a very good method. Why do we take sharp objects away from mental patients in isolation? If they want to gouge their own eyes out, let 'em have at it.
Posted by NoHoTiger
So many to kill, so little time
Member since Nov 2006
46209 posts
Posted on 5/11/16 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

This thread reminds me of the old saying "those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".


When things of this nature are taken on an individual basis, which is what we are discussing, there is no issue. However, you cannot refuse an individual case made by a competent person because of the previous actions of men. No one is suggesting we round up the aged and infirmed and kill them. We are saying in this instance, given this case, this person made her decision and it should be respected.
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