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re: 155 Years Ago Today Confederate Forces Opened Fire on Fort Sumter
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:52 am to PsychTiger
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:52 am to PsychTiger
quote:Decisive victory: United States. Somebody fricked with the wrong country.
As it turns out, no one really won.
0
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:52 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
frick all the inbreed confederate soliders and their offspring who can't get over a war of a bunch of traitors.
Tough guy eh? How many confederate soldiers have you met recently? Dumbass.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:52 am to ballscaster
quote:
Fort Sumter belonged to the US. It was federal property.
In a state that that no longer recognized the authority of the USA. That makes it contested territory. The US Constitution did not say anything about another state leaving the union, and the SCOTUS case that said a state didn't have the right to leave was not until 1868. In addition, there was no lease for the fort (i.e GITMO) or status of forces agreement or anything else that allowed the US to justify a presence there. So the argument that the north was violating the CSA's territory by not refusing to turn over Fort Sumter is just as valid as the argument that the fort was federal property.
sorry you have a 7th grade textbook understanding of history. The causes of the civil war are many and extremely complicated. Both sides were right and both sides were wrong, and there were a shite ton of ppl caught in between. In the end the south lost and the north got to write "official story," but that does not mean that acknowledge something other than the official story is making shite up or a conspiracy.
Back to my earlier point as to why it was a stupid decision to attack the fort:
Jefferson Davis made the stupid decision and let South Carolina open fire. He should have listened to the "moderates" and sued the US government. The SCOTUS at time favored the south, and that same court issued the Dred Scott decision. If they had done that the south would have won the case, and Lincoln would have either had to attack the south or give up the contested territory. If he attacked than Britain and France would have came to the aid of the CSA. If he didn't attack then the south would have been a new country. Instead Davis choose to attack, and we all know how that turned out.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:54 am to WeeWee
quote:
In a state that that no longer recognized the authority of the USA. That makes it stolen territory.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:57 am to Mung
quote:Pretty confident are you? My guess is, you have no idea.
Half the people are still clueless about the cause of the war, and can't accept that we lost.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:57 am to WeeWee
quote:
sorry you have a 7th grade textbook understanding of history.
Don't waste your breathe on ballscaster. He's simply trying to troll the thread. He thinks that by calling someone "traitor" or "the south got their arse kicked" that it will anger someone. What he isn't aware of, is that no one alive today was in the Civil War so insulting long dead people is about as useful as tits on a bull. He also doesn't realize that a lot of people here's ancestors didn't arrive in the US until after the Civil War.
Just let him cast his insults at long dead people. It's the only way he can show any semblance of courage.
Him, along with the other ignorants on this thread, think that their first reaction to anything historical about the civil war must be met with hate or aggression. They don't know or want to know any facts or opinions at the time of the war. Even if it is purely historical records you are sighting, they will still say, "nothing but a bunch of racist traitors". Utterly useless talking to those types.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 10:59 am
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:58 am to WeeWee
quote:
WeeWee
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:58 am to ballscaster
quote:
Back then the United States made a habit of establishing dominance over primitive, backward people. The civil war was no different. Superior people defeated inferior people.
No offense, but when you make statements like that, you come across as ignorant as those who try to claim slavery was not a key issue that lead to the Civil War.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:59 am to WalkingTurtles
quote:
quote:
Foremost among these, was the right of one man to own another one, and in exchange transfer said ownership to the government and a single political party.
FIFY
...well, that's god damned right.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:59 am to BugAC
quote:
Just let him cast his insults at long dead people. It's the only way he can show any semblance of courage.
While the dead cannot fight back, they somehow still manage to vote in shockingly high numbers.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 10:59 am to Darth_Vader
Had the South just stayed in the Union, slavery would have eventually ended anyway due to economics (e.g. Brazil) and we would not have the 14th Amendment which in effect made the States political subdivisions of the Federal government.
We would still have a true Federal system.
We would still have a true Federal system.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:00 am to Darth_Vader
quote:Have never noticed him before this?
No offense, but when you make statements like that, you come across as ignorant
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:03 am to Vito Andolini
quote:
we would not have the 14th Amendment which in effect made the States political subdivisions of the Federal government.
We would still have a true Federal system.
I don't know if that's true. The states were their own political subdivisions long before the civil war, even prior to the signing of the declaration of independence.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:23 am to Vito Andolini
quote:
Had the South just stayed in the Union, slavery would have eventually ended anyway due to economics (e.g. Brazil) and we would not have the 14th Amendment which in effect made the States political subdivisions of the Federal government.
We would still have a true Federal system.
Even before the South left the Union, the growing power of the federal government was seen as a growing threat to the states.
LINK
Like I've said, it was the growing power of the federal government coupled with the north's growing hold over the federal government that was one of the main reasons, along with Slavery, the South seceded.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:33 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Like I've said, it was the growing power of the federal government coupled with the north's growing hold over the federal government that was one of the main reasons, along with Slavery, the South seceded.
Yes, but it was the 14th Amendment which really enabled the Federal government to reach out into areas it never was intended to be involved in (e.g. marriage, abortion, etc.).
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:33 am to Darth_Vader
quote:That's your opinion, but that the US was superior to the militia is incontrovertible true.
No offense, but when you make statements like that, you come across as ignorant as those who try to claim slavery was not a key issue that lead to the Civil War.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:35 am to ballscaster
quote:
In a state that that no longer recognized the authority of the USA. That makes it stolen territory.
So you are saying the north stole the sandbar that the fort sat on from South Carolina? If so you might be right.
The fort was built on a sandbar in the Charleston harbor by the US government for the protection of Charleston SC. Charleston harbor was consider part of the state of South Carolina, and fort sumter was inside the border of charleston harbor. SC made the argument that it was no longer part of the USA, and therefore the fort was not being used to protect Charleston, and therefore should be ceded to south carolina. At the time, there was nothing in the US Constitution or SCOTUS precident that could be used to deny that, and they would have to argue their case in front a SCOTUS if it went to court. Lincoln and the others in the north, also knew that if the SCOTUS ruled in favor of South Carolina and the other southern states, the Union soldiers in the fort would have been considered an aggressive act against South Carolina. If it was considered an aggressive act, Britain and France, would have recognized the south and joined the confederacy if war ever came. Lincoln and others in the north knew that, and they knew the SCOTUS favored the south at the time, and that in order to keep the moral upper hand in the eyes of the American public, and any international arbitrator if it ever came to that, they had to get the south to fire first, and Davis and South Carolina played right into his hands.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:40 am to PsychTiger
quote:
While the dead cannot fight back, they somehow still manage to vote in shockingly high numbers.
The democrats figured of to reactivate Dr. Frankenstein's machine, and now once every four years they fire it up. I submitted the plot to A&E but they said they were not interested in a "Voting Dead" spinoff of the "Walking Dead."
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:41 am to ballscaster
quote:
That's your opinion, but that the US was superior to the militia is incontrovertible true.
Superior to the "militia"? What does that even mean? Are you not aware that the vast majority of Union forces were, like their Confederate counterparts, "State" (and thus militia) instead of "federal" troops?
Posted on 4/12/16 at 11:46 am to lsu2006
quote:
Notice how I said almost 100% dead? Just look at the census of 1860. Should shed some light on the topic.
So 44,000+ slaves in Maryland is almost dead to you? I think I will forward that on to BLM, the NAACP, and other civil rights group. Prepare thy anus for eshame.
No I was not serious about the forwarding, but your argument is just downright wrong. There is alteast evidence to say that the south was justified in attack fort sumter, but there is nothing that backs up your claim.
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