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re: 155 Years Ago Today Confederate Forces Opened Fire on Fort Sumter
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:09 am to slackster
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:09 am to slackster
quote:
Come on, the Civil War was not fought out of principle and to protect state's rights. Slavery was the cause and the south disguised it as a state's rights issue. The fact of the matter is that slavery was the first "right" that was going to be taken away from southern states that they actually gave a shite about, so now state's rights were a problem.
Slavery was terrible, and an abomination. It was also popular and legal at the time. So if a critical mass and majority of a state back a proposal, and the state legislature enacts it into law, you think that the fedgov should have the right to step in because it disagrees?
How many rights have to be taken from a group of people before there's pushback?
1
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:10 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
frick all the inbreed confederate soliders and their offspring who can't get over a war of a bunch of traitors.
Not all descendants of confederate soldiers and/or statesmen have trouble getting over it. See: me.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:10 am to lsu2006
quote:
then-largely prevailing (everywhere but the south) idea that humans aren't property
You know how I know you are ignorant of history?
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:11 am to slackster
quote:
The 2nd dumbest military decision in history.
If we're isolating this to American military decisions only, I'll allow it.
I wasn't just limiting it to American history, but I was limiting it to attacks that started a war.
#1. Hitler invading the Soviet Union
#2. The South attacking Fort Sumter
#3. Japan attacking Pearl Harbor
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:11 am to Mung
quote:
If you ever wonder why the southern states are last in education, and lead in all the negative quality indicators, just check this thread. Half the people are still clueless about the cause of the war, and can't accept that we lost. 155 years later. Sad, really.
Yeah...THAT'S why.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:11 am to slackster
I'm not going to argue the point of Slavery being a key factor in the South leaving the Union. I will say though that the issue was more complicated than that one issue.
However, I will point out that to the average soldier on either side, the war was not about slavery. Most Union soldiers did not fight to end salvery, contrary to popular modern day myth,just as the average Confederate solder did not fight to keep slavery either.
The point in all this is that to understand the Civil War, you cannot look at it from our modern perspective. Rather you have to look at the mindset of those who were there and lived through the Civil War; from the lowly Confederate or Union private all the way up to Davis and Lincoln as well.
However, I will point out that to the average soldier on either side, the war was not about slavery. Most Union soldiers did not fight to end salvery, contrary to popular modern day myth,just as the average Confederate solder did not fight to keep slavery either.
The point in all this is that to understand the Civil War, you cannot look at it from our modern perspective. Rather you have to look at the mindset of those who were there and lived through the Civil War; from the lowly Confederate or Union private all the way up to Davis and Lincoln as well.
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 9:17 am
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:13 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
frick all the inbreed confederate soliders and their offspring who can't get over a war of a bunch of traitors.
Millions of descendants of Confederate servicemen exist. 95% of us are "over it". I won't call my CSA ancestor a traitor though.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:13 am to udtiger
quote:
You know how I know you are ignorant of history?
Slavery was almost 100% dead in the north by the time war started. Sorry numbers confuse you.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:13 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Rather you have to look at the mindset of those who were there and lived through the Civil War; from the lowly Confederate or Union private all the way up to Davis and Lincoln as well
Don't bother. Applying modern concepts of morality and national identity to historical actions/events is par for the course.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:13 am to lsu2006
quote:
Meh, I know Lincoln was at one point in favor of sending slaves back to Africa but he realized that was impractical. You can scream that the northerners were just as racist and there's certainly a little merit to it, but at least their prevailing notion was that owning people was inherently immoral and repugnant of human decency.
I'm sorry but that's not historically correct.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:14 am to Darth_Vader
As with most discussions, the answer lies in between.
Slavery was not the only issue that led to war, and it is often oversimplified in discussing the causes.
However, it was the biggest issue, and without slavery there probably would have been no war.
Slavery was not the only issue that led to war, and it is often oversimplified in discussing the causes.
However, it was the biggest issue, and without slavery there probably would have been no war.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:14 am to lsu2006
quote:
Slavery was almost 100% dead in the north by the time war started
No shite, Sherlock. But that does not support the asinine statement I was responding to.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:15 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:that'll be the day.
So if they took less money
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:16 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
t was also popular and legal at the time. So if a critical mass and majority of a state back a proposal, and the state legislature enacts it into law, you think that the fedgov should have the right to step in because it disagrees?
That makes it sound as if the Union attacked the South in order to free the slaves, which is not my argument in the slightest. The South seceded because they wanted to keep slavery and they thought - rightfully so - that the North was going to inhibit that effort. That is the crux of the argument - slavery was important enough for them to go to war to protect it.
Also, if the Federal government is required to step in and legislate that humans are not property, then that is one exception I can have to my general position as pro-state's rights.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:18 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Most Union soldiers did not fight to end salver you contrary to popular modern day myth
100% agree. This is the worst myth about the Civil War.
The second worst myth is that the South didn't secede because of slavery.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:21 am to LCA131
quote:
Foremost among these, was the right of one man to own another one, and in exchange transfer said ownership to the government and a single political party.
FIFY
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:22 am to Darth_Vader
Both sides fighting for wrong reasons. Luckily, Lysander Spooner was there to put it all into perspective.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:25 am to slackster
quote:
That makes it sound as if the Union attacked the South in order to free the slaves, which is not my argument in the slightest. The South seceded because they wanted to keep slavery and they thought - rightfully so - that the North was going to inhibit that effort. That is the crux of the argument - slavery was important enough for them to go to war to protect it.
I could agree with that. I still hold the viewpoint that a majority of voters should be able to determine their own economy and affairs, even if other nonresidents think it's stupid or wrong. I don't like the idea that a group of nonresidents can and still does hold sway in one States affairs. There's plenty of current day examples of that.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:27 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I'm sorry but that's not historically correct.
k
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:27 am to WalkingTurtles
quote:
quote:Foremost among these, was the right of one man to own another one, and in exchange transfer said ownership to the government and a single political party.
And, in true irony, to the slaveholding party.
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