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re: 155 Years Ago Today Confederate Forces Opened Fire on Fort Sumter
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:57 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:57 am to Darth_Vader
Man, you're awfully defensive of a bunch of 155+ year old racists.
1
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:58 am to LCA131
quote:
Foremost among these, was the right of one man to own property.
FIFY
Sorry, but the ugly truth is that slaves were property (chattel) in every sense of the word. It was for this reason that interference with, and threats to, the continued ownership of slaves was a violation of the 5th Amendment. The election of Lincoln and the efforts to prohibit slavery from territories (hence, from future states) was a clear signal to the southern states that the national government would no longer protect the rights of their citizens. Thus, the contract of the Constitution was broken and they were entitled to secede from the USA.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 8:59 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
The battle? Or the war?
the only thing that matters
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:01 am to slackster
quote:
It takes quite a leap of logic to argue that slavery was not the root cause of the war.
Does it though? Why should states have the right of self determination taken from them?
I still think there's a fundamental political divide between the South and the north in terms of governmental reach. Southern states place more emphasis on state government, Northern States look for guidance from Washington. There's a reason why the Democratic policies of the Northeast almost always make their way to Washington.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:01 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
You do realize that there were Union slave States DURING AND AFTER the civil war? That the last slave to be freed was in Delaware IIRC?
This argument comes up all the time and I simply cannot let it go. Am I supposed to think it was OK now since some Union states had slaves too? This is the equivalent of everyone jumping off the Golden Gate bridge and you following suit as if is a good idea. I mean c'mon.
Most people: Slavery was an abomination and the root cause of the Civil War.
NYNolaguy1: Yeah, well, other states owned slaves too, so that makes it all okay.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:02 am to Hoyt
quote:
In defense of States' Rights
never stop fighting the good fight
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:02 am to lsu2006
quote:
Man, you're awfully defensive of a bunch of 155+ year old racists.
Who am I defending?
Furthermore, if you'll take the time to do a bit of reading, you'll find out the northerners were as racist as anyone from the south for the most part, and that includes Abraham Lincoln himself.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:02 am to slackster
quote:. Rather than responding to this, see my last response directly above this.
Most people: Slavery was an abomination and the root cause of the Civil War.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:02 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:you can't say they govern themselves when they're the biggest leaches.
But their message of states being able to govern their own affairs is very much alive in the South today. It also still draws scorn from Washington and the national media.
*leeches
This post was edited on 4/12/16 at 9:07 am
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:02 am to slackster
quote:
This argument comes up all the time and I simply cannot let it go. Am I supposed to think it was OK now since some Union states had slaves too?
Actually, it drives home the point that slavery existed longer under Old Glory than it ever did under the Stars and Bars.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:04 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Does it though? Why should states have the right of self determination taken from them?
Come on, the Civil War was not fought out of principle and to protect state's rights. Slavery was the cause and the south disguised it as a state's rights issue. The fact of the matter is that slavery was the first "right" that was going to be taken away from southern states that they actually gave a shite about, so now state's rights were a problem.
In every way, shape, and form the Civil War was fought over slavery. It really isn't debatable.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:04 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
you can't say they govern themselves when they're the biggest leaches.
meh they will just blame black people
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:05 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
you can't say they govern themselves when they're the biggest leaches.
So if they took less money, should they be able to do what they want?
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:06 am to udtiger
quote:
Actually, it drives home the point that slavery existed longer under Old Glory than it ever did under the Stars and Bars.
Look, I'm not trying to make the Union out to be some hero, and I agree that the idea that the North fought with the South in an attempt to end slavery is ridiculous. However, the South 100% seceded because of slavery. I'll entertain arguments that it was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was the root cause no matter how you slice it.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:06 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Furthermore, if you'll take the time to do a bit of reading, you'll find out the northerners were as racist as anyone from the south for the most part, and that includes Abraham Lincoln himself.
Meh, I know Lincoln was at one point in favor of sending slaves back to Africa but he realized that was impractical. You can scream that the northerners were just as racist and there's certainly a little merit to it, but at least their prevailing notion was that owning people was inherently immoral and repugnant of human decency.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:08 am to udtiger
quote:
Sorry, but the ugly truth is that slaves were property (chattel) in every sense of the word. It was for this reason that interference with, and threats to, the continued ownership of slaves was a violation of the 5th Amendment. The election of Lincoln and the efforts to prohibit slavery from territories (hence, from future states) was a clear signal to the southern states that the national government would no longer protect the rights of their citizens. Thus, the contract of the Constitution was broken and they were entitled to secede from the USA.
This is all garbage if you were to subscribe to the then-largely prevailing (everywhere but the south) idea that humans aren't property.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:08 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Secession was treason
No it wasn't. That is the main reason that they never put Jeff Davis on trial because it would be ruled that secession was not unconstitutional and the Union would be responsible for a “civil war” that had killed over half a million lives.
This post was edited on 4/13/16 at 8:36 am
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:08 am to Darth_Vader
frick all the inbreed confederate soliders and their offspring who can't get over a war of a bunch of traitors.
Posted on 4/12/16 at 9:09 am to Darth_Vader
If you ever wonder why the southern states are last in education, and lead in all the negative quality indicators, just check this thread. Half the people are still clueless about the cause of the war, and can't accept that we lost. 155 years later. Sad, really.
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