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Message
How pumped are you to restructure (possibly extend) Carr this offseason?
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:28 am
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:28 am
Carr profile from OTC
Next year, Carr's base salary jumps to $30M as his total cap his balloons to $35.7M.
Per OTC, even with the $30M being guaranteed, cutting him post-June 1 would be cap neutral for 2024 (however this would really hurt 2025's cap). The problem is that we are projected to be more than $72M over the 2024 cap already, so a cap-neutral cut would probably not be enough in the larger picture.
That $30M base salary isn't shocking, either, b/c that is likely the meat where the FO thought they could shave $20M+ off the 2024 cap via restructuring. However, this also assumed Carr would be a quality (as opposed to shitty) QB. Kicking the can works if we plan on extending him to ease the burden of the huge hit, but if he sucks, then that plan doesn't work.
A restructure also makes 2025 pretty crazy, b/c he has a $30M salary and $10M roster bonus. His 2025 cap hit is already $45.7M. A restructure would push this over $50M, which is why an extension makes more sense, cap-wise.
Next year, Carr's base salary jumps to $30M as his total cap his balloons to $35.7M.
Per OTC, even with the $30M being guaranteed, cutting him post-June 1 would be cap neutral for 2024 (however this would really hurt 2025's cap). The problem is that we are projected to be more than $72M over the 2024 cap already, so a cap-neutral cut would probably not be enough in the larger picture.
That $30M base salary isn't shocking, either, b/c that is likely the meat where the FO thought they could shave $20M+ off the 2024 cap via restructuring. However, this also assumed Carr would be a quality (as opposed to shitty) QB. Kicking the can works if we plan on extending him to ease the burden of the huge hit, but if he sucks, then that plan doesn't work.
A restructure also makes 2025 pretty crazy, b/c he has a $30M salary and $10M roster bonus. His 2025 cap hit is already $45.7M. A restructure would push this over $50M, which is why an extension makes more sense, cap-wise.
12
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:41 am to SlowFlowPro
my god man just let it go. between your constant bitching about something that will never get better, Sir Winston constantly whining about the field and jersey looks, and Victories constant trying to make himself look like the smartest person in the room, when everyone else just pats it on the head and says Bless your heart, you guys are all just miserable people sitting around and circle jerking to your own miserableness.
at some point, just accept that our chances to win a SB are done for a while, be happy with the one we got and not stress and or worry about it so much.
at some point, just accept that our chances to win a SB are done for a while, be happy with the one we got and not stress and or worry about it so much.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:43 am to Thracken13
quote:
at some point, just accept that our chances to win a SB are done for a while, be happy with the one we got and not stress and or worry about it so much.
And you say I am the miserable one?
Posted on 10/22/23 at 8:53 am to SlowFlowPro
see, that is where you have me wrong. i am far from miserable. the fact that in my lifetime i never fathomed I would see either NO or Auburn win it all, made it so much better that we did. for me that eliminated all stress of wanting to see us win one. it has made my football watching experience a lot better.
does it bother me to see the teams struggle? absolutely, but the stress for me is gone. I'd love to see us win another, but Salary Cap or not, shitty QB or not, right now there are other teams playing a lot better.
everyone expects another 09 team - and that just isn't likely to happen again, not because of the salary cap, but it is a factor. you could level out the cap, but you aren't getting the talent in that other teams are paying top dollar for - so you are basically turning the Saints into the Oakland A's - and not the one that made the playoffs due to Moneyball.
the fact is, you have to play the Cap - you have to kick the can if you want competitive talent - because if you aren't willing to pay, the top talents isnt willing to come play for you.
does it bother me to see the teams struggle? absolutely, but the stress for me is gone. I'd love to see us win another, but Salary Cap or not, shitty QB or not, right now there are other teams playing a lot better.
everyone expects another 09 team - and that just isn't likely to happen again, not because of the salary cap, but it is a factor. you could level out the cap, but you aren't getting the talent in that other teams are paying top dollar for - so you are basically turning the Saints into the Oakland A's - and not the one that made the playoffs due to Moneyball.
the fact is, you have to play the Cap - you have to kick the can if you want competitive talent - because if you aren't willing to pay, the top talents isnt willing to come play for you.
This post was edited on 10/22/23 at 8:55 am
Posted on 10/22/23 at 9:37 am to Thracken13
quote:
Victories constant trying to make himself look like the smartest person in the room
No trying involved when a large faction of the forum believed Carr was a great signing and if you disagreed you were shat on.
Yep, I’m getting all my “told you so’s” in on my lil guys. Allen sucks. Carr sucks. Olave is a complementary WR. fricking told you.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 9:45 am to Thracken13
quote:
everyone expects another 09 team
You're thinking about this too much in terms of relation to past teams. This passive fandom is its own type of miserableness, and always has been to me (Especially on a discussion/message board). The passive fandom is also why so many people on here cheered on the can kicking, pick trading, and FA signings.
Fans should expect good decision-making from the FO/coaches. This is all a discussion about decision-making and not the "New Orleans Saints." The team has just engaged in terrible decision-making that the aforementioned passive fandom cheered on in the offseason.
quote:
but you aren't getting the talent in that other teams are paying top dollar for
Our 2009 squad is an outlier in terms of FAs leading a title. Most titles are grown organically through the draft. Also, this isn't the NBA and there is no reason that we can't sign FAs. Your argument doesn't make any sense, and it has the low expectations that I referenced earlier as its own type of miserable existence. This "aw shucks we're lucky to have a team" mindset just seems miserable.
quote:
so you are basically turning the Saints into the Oakland A's
What? Why?
Posted on 10/22/23 at 9:54 am to SlowFlowPro
People clearly don’t like to hear it but it’s true. Saints are not really going to be able to even tank in the near future. Our only hope is trades I guess. But we’re on a road to a decade of pain. Not sure there’s anyone in New Orleans capable and willing with an opportunity to fix this. Leadership is off.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:11 am to Thracken13
quote:
the fact is, you have to play the Cap - you have to kick the can if you want competitive talent
This is missing the point what the Saints have done is unique and puts them in a terrible position for years. When they had Brees and a SB window open then kicking the can is fine, but once they window closes you have to face the music and they didn’t, the doubled down and now they have a mediocre roster that’s aging and they have no flexibility. If they wanted to trade away assets they couldn’t because of the cap situation.
This guy is pretty much saying the same as SFP he’s a nation writer not a fan, laying it out like it is unfortunately. He also has a thread explaining why “coaching” isn’t the fix either.
LINK
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:15 am to SlowFlowPro
Not at all.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:24 am to Thracken13
quote:
you could level out the cap, but you aren't getting the talent in that other teams are paying top dollar for - so you are basically turning the Saints into the Oakland A's - and not the one that made the playoffs due to Moneybal
Again you are completely missing the point and apparently have not been paying attention? The Saints are the ones losing the talent, where is Trey Hendrickson? Terron Armstread? They didn’t lose them because they are “cheap”, they lost them because they couldn’t afford to keep everyone because of the way they handle the cap. The cap concerns aren’t about wanting them to “save” money for its own sake. The Saints are closer to the Mets or the Padres mediocre/bad teams that over spent than the As. Though unlike the Mets they can’t even trade assets for younger players/draft picks because of the cap hits.
This post was edited on 10/22/23 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
Can we lease the Carr, or reLEASE it?
Posted on 10/22/23 at 10:31 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
This guy is pretty much saying the same as SFP he’s a nation writer not a fan, laying it out like it is unfortunately. He also has a thread explaining why “coaching” isn’t the fix either.
Spot on. With the Carr disaster, the Saints should will need to avoid free agent signings and go 90% draft and UDFAs to clear the books on these ridiculous contracts through 2026.
3 years of wasted non competitive football. I’d like to keep DA and ML because we’ll be drafting top 5 in the future but the same clowns that liked Olave, Penning, Ruiz, Turner, etc aren’t to be trusted.
Attendance will dwindle and boos and bags are the new normal.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 11:05 am to Geauxldilocks
quote:
3 years of wasted non competitive football.
This the worst part. There’s no way to avoid a bad season at some point. Take your shot with Brees, they had 4 great seasons from 2017-20, sucks they didn’t get to another SB but it was worth it to kick the can then. But now you are just mediocre, in part because the division is bad but eventually they will still have a terrible season you just delayed for what? So you could maybe go 9-8 and win the South?
quote:
drafting top 5 in the future but the same clowns that liked Olave, Penning, Ruiz, Turner, etc aren’t to be trusted.
This another issue. The problem with Olave was what they gave up to get him. It was just stupid to give up what they did.
I’m not going to kill them over Penning and Ruiz, those picks made sense, they weren’t “reaches” and were considered good prospect. Everyone misses.
Turner and Davenport are another matter. They were in “win now” mode and needed pass rushers, so they draft projects from G5 schools with injury history on top of that.
This post was edited on 10/22/23 at 11:07 am
Posted on 10/22/23 at 11:18 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
This another issue. The problem with Olave was what they gave up to get him. It was just stupid to give up what they did. I’m not going to kill them over Penning and Ruiz, those picks made sense, they weren’t “reaches” and were considered good prospect. Everyone misses.
To win a championship you have to be elite at the draft. To be a playoff team you have to be above average. There’s no excuse for so many misses. If you’re not at least above average you’re failing. We’ve been a well below average team in the draft for years. We have to fix it or we’re going nowhere.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 11:23 am to Thracken13
So many of these posts making it seem like the people that post in these forums actually have any input in the decisions the team makes. Yes, the cap situation around Carr’s contract is going to hurt the team for the next several years; but at the same time there is absolutely nothing anyone that posts here can do about it other than just have discussions about “what ifs”, “what I would do is…”, “this sucks because..:”, etc, etc, etc.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 11:25 am to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
So many of these posts making it seem like the people that post in these forums actually have any input in the decisions the team makes. Yes, the cap situation around Carr’s contract is going to hurt the team for the next several years; but at the same time there is absolutely nothing anyone that posts here can do about it other than just have discussions about “what ifs”, “what I would do is…”, “this sucks because..:”, etc, etc, etc.
New to the whole forum concept I see.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:07 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
This guy is pretty much saying the same as SFP
Yeah he definitely stole my material. I also went into a LOT more detail than he did
*ETA: before the "the cap is a myth" bros chime in and start claiming he did not steal my material, that was a joke, bad decision-makers.
This post was edited on 10/22/23 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:08 pm to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
So many of these posts making it seem like the people that post in these forums actually have any input in the decisions the team makes
Exactly. The “I wish the team would listen to me” posts that are repeated on here are amusing. Nothing we as fans can do about it. Just along for the ride and hope for the best. And if we falter, changes will be made.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:09 pm to Weekend Warrior79
Yes we know. This is just a venting fan forum. There is absolutely nobody here that thinks they can actively influence the Saints organization. Thank you for stating the obvious.
Posted on 10/22/23 at 1:11 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Yes we know. This is just a venting fan forum. There is absolutely nobody here that thinks they can actively influence the Saints organization. Thank you for stating the obvious.
Of course not. Just those that spam the board with their repeated takes.
It’s a shite time to be a Saints fan. That’s for sure.
All we can hope for is to get it right with the next coach hire and draft well enough
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