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Started By
Message
re: Fletcher’s rant on starting QB
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:39 am to drizztiger
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:39 am to drizztiger
quote:
Which is simply your opinion which you at the coaches possibly preferring Rattler now as giving the team best chance at success
It's definitely my opinion.
Take a step back and look across the league. Sorry dude. Rattler isn't playing at the level of a starting NFL QB.
quote:
You have no idea what the coaches are thinking, let alone laugh at the contention.
I have a pretty good idea what the coaches are thinking. Don't get your feelings hurt because the opinion isn't a positive one for this team.
0
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:44 am to moneyg
quote:stop being racist
we are 100% not making a change.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:45 am to bonethug0180
quote:Fletcher is a bitch. I hope he reads that
Also, he DEFINITELY reads Saints Talk. xD
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:52 am to Ghost Of Bristow
I 100% agree with him. If you are saying start Rattler and then move on the Shough, than you may as well play Shough now.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:54 am to drizztiger
The reality is neither are likely decent starter QBs in the NFL, and the long term qb is playing college football this week. This team is going to suck and arguing over which seat filler qb should be starting week one is pointless.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 7:58 am to BTRDD
quote:
I 100% agree with him. If you are saying start Rattler and then move on the Shough, than you may as well play Shough now.
This is about Kellen Moore.
Do you think Kellen Moore, after a full training camp, doesn't have a good understanding of what Rattler brings to the table? Do you think he doesn't know that we are about to get below average QB play?
If that's the case, we are doomed for a while.
I think he knows. He has to pick 1 of the 2. And, there's no right answer right now. There's an outside shot that Shough keeps developing and is a different QB in the near future than he is right now. But, he has to protect Shough so that he keeps developing.
If he thinks Shough can't protect himself yet, it makes total sense to go to Rattler. The defensive fronts that teams show in the regular season are different than in the preseason. It's night and day.
Shough is going to get his chance when he's ready. It could be 4 games, it could be 8. But, it's coming.
And, the fairy tale of Rattler playing well and making this a winning team just isn't realistic. That would be a surprise to everyone not blinded by their black and gold glasses.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:02 am to drizztiger
quote:
You have no idea what the coaches are thinking, let alone laugh at the contention
The coaches are wrestling with this pretty hard because both are very close. The question will Shough progress through the year and get way better. There really is only one way to find that out.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:07 am to BlacknGold
quote:
i dont think the sentiment is "pull Rattler after 4-5 games" for whatever. I think most here think you start Rattler and assuming he does suck we pull him after giving enough time to evaluate (around 4 or 5 games)
Exactly, not only that, but we are not going to get a proper evaluation on Shough throwing him in that early in the season. Going on the road to Seattle and Buffalo is going to be a killer.
Rattler has starting experience and you can get a good idea of what Rattler is by then. A bonus is it gives Shough more practices and time to acclimate. Weeks of film study to see what teams are doing on defense. And the schedule softens up later in the year. Then you will have a better picture and know who to procced with the qb room next year after seeing both for an extended period of time.
This post was edited on 8/26/25 at 8:11 am
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:26 am to bonethug0180
quote:
That's part of the issue, that most are just assuming he will suck and have no faith, so why even "push" for him to start at all in that case? It's just a very odd way to look at things.
He’s 0-6 as an NFL starter with more INTs than TDs and a 57% completion rate. Not sure how it’s odd to expect him to flop. You give him another chance under a different staff and a healthy roster to make sure nothing is really there. Then you move on. He flashes a few good things that pushed the org to finish their due diligence on him
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:29 am to Big Jim Slade
HIs take could not be more wrong. Like literally could not be more wrong.
A new head coach is 100% thinking "what is the best approach to (1) protect my job and (2) defend my drafting of Shough"
That is what drives this decision. Pretending that this is not in play is absolutely crazy.
A new head coach is 100% thinking "what is the best approach to (1) protect my job and (2) defend my drafting of Shough"
That is what drives this decision. Pretending that this is not in play is absolutely crazy.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:52 am to BilJ
quote:I tend to agree with this as well.
The reality is neither are likely decent starter QBs in the NFL, and the long term qb is playing college football this week. This team is going to suck and arguing over which seat filler qb should be starting week one is pointless.
I don't have a horse in the face. The OP was about the "just because" narrative that some were pushing - not everyone sees it that arbitrarily. The future QB isn't likely on the team, but that doesn't mean Coach Moore in his first stint as HC isn't going to try to be successfully year 1. If Rattler gets the start, I don't think it's matter of fact he's being thrown to wolves for the sake of Shough getting comfortable.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:55 am to drizztiger
I think the point is give Rattler a shot and not throw Shough to the wolves immediately and shoot whatever confidence he has.
If Rattler does better than expected, great. If he doesn’t, at some point you switch to Shough and point out to there is no expectation that he win games as much as seeing what full speed NFL play vs all 1s looks like so he can learn and get better.
That’s just my thinking, I doubt there is a hard deadline to start Shough.
If Rattler does better than expected, great. If he doesn’t, at some point you switch to Shough and point out to there is no expectation that he win games as much as seeing what full speed NFL play vs all 1s looks like so he can learn and get better.
That’s just my thinking, I doubt there is a hard deadline to start Shough.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 8:55 am to GynoSandberg
If you expect Rattler to flop (like I do) then you do not play him at all. You just start Shough and get him as much time as possible. We have more invested in him and he definitely has higher upside (although neither may ever be starters in this league).
So that still lines up with what is said, IF the staff thinks Rattler is not the guy, then there is no reason to start him. You are trying to win every game, and you thought enough of Shough's upside to draft him in the 2nd, so you put him out there.
There is no period of coddling that he "needs". That's just bs narrative. The best learning experience is on the field, and that's the best way to improve. If he is so mentally weak that bad early games will kill him, he was never the guy anyway.
And as for protection calls, McCoy has been making those (when healthy, which is why our line goes to shite without him). Yes Shough needs to understand it for long term, but he doesn't need to make the adjustments as we have someone else doing that.
And if you don't put him behind the healthiest team we'll have all season, then it will only hurt him in the long run. Just look at how much the preseason hurt both guys by McCoy (and Penning) not playing. Neither was given a fair chance behind that interior we trotted out.
You make the choice because you believe one guy or the other truly gives you the best chance to win, not because you want to check and see something. If you don't believe in either, then you bring someone else in. If you believe in Shough's long term potential, then you start him, because there is only one way to improve fast and that's on the field.
So that still lines up with what is said, IF the staff thinks Rattler is not the guy, then there is no reason to start him. You are trying to win every game, and you thought enough of Shough's upside to draft him in the 2nd, so you put him out there.
There is no period of coddling that he "needs". That's just bs narrative. The best learning experience is on the field, and that's the best way to improve. If he is so mentally weak that bad early games will kill him, he was never the guy anyway.
And as for protection calls, McCoy has been making those (when healthy, which is why our line goes to shite without him). Yes Shough needs to understand it for long term, but he doesn't need to make the adjustments as we have someone else doing that.
And if you don't put him behind the healthiest team we'll have all season, then it will only hurt him in the long run. Just look at how much the preseason hurt both guys by McCoy (and Penning) not playing. Neither was given a fair chance behind that interior we trotted out.
You make the choice because you believe one guy or the other truly gives you the best chance to win, not because you want to check and see something. If you don't believe in either, then you bring someone else in. If you believe in Shough's long term potential, then you start him, because there is only one way to improve fast and that's on the field.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:02 am to mdomingue
quote:That was kind of the point of the start Rattler 4-5 weeks, then move on. I understand letting Shough see the speed of the game and get acclimated and you may want to take that initial pressure off of him. That's not really all what was going around though - to one of Fletcher's points.
That’s just my thinking, I doubt there is a hard deadline to start Shough.
Some of great minds were basically spouting just put Rattler in 4-5 weeks until we're 1-4/0-5 and then put Shough in. Done. It's that simple.
We all read ST, this isn't a Mensa conference.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:05 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
but if he stinks or is not playing well and we are 2-7
I’m all for whoever will lose us the most games.
If there were ever a season to tank for the top pick- this is it.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:09 am to drizztiger
quote:
We all read ST, this isn't a Mensa conference.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:10 am to Hayekian serf
quote:
I’m all for whoever will lose us the most games.
Jake Haener, come on down, your the starting qb for the New Orleans saints…
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:21 am to bonethug0180
We can’t project the fans thoughts onto the coaches. Fans are 50/50 on with QB sucks more.
Odds are Shough is arse too, doesn’t mean you don’t see what you have. They obviously see things in both guys. If you don’t currently have a QB of the future, it would be foolish not to fully vet these guys in Moore’s system. I mean, this is the whole selling point with Moore.
There’s no difference in 17 or 13 games of Shough. You’re going to learn what you need to know about both guys either way. You can find NFL teams that had success both sitting the QBs and throwing them straight into the fire.
Odds are Shough is arse too, doesn’t mean you don’t see what you have. They obviously see things in both guys. If you don’t currently have a QB of the future, it would be foolish not to fully vet these guys in Moore’s system. I mean, this is the whole selling point with Moore.
There’s no difference in 17 or 13 games of Shough. You’re going to learn what you need to know about both guys either way. You can find NFL teams that had success both sitting the QBs and throwing them straight into the fire.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:28 am to Chad504boy
quote:
I sort of get what he’s saying. Not his worst work at all.
He’s basically saying NFL teams dont play to lose. Which is true.
Posted on 8/26/25 at 9:32 am to GynoSandberg
quote:I haven't, which is why I put a bunch of if/then statements in there. If the coaches think this, then they do this.
We can’t project the fans thoughts onto the coaches. Fans are 50/50 on with QB sucks more.
They aren't going to start Rattler as a check and see for a few games. This is the whole point of contention. If he starts it's because they believe he is they guy.
If they start Shough, maybe it has less to do with believing he is the guy, but it's either they believe he is the guy or that Rattler isn't.
In the 2nd case I would expect them to bring in someone else instead, but they haven't yet (although still possible) so that signals they believe one of them is their guy. Whether that is long term or not will play out on the field.
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