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Started By
Message
re: Announcers questioning the Brees "run" for a first and short?
Posted on 11/18/19 at 9:48 am to TigerMan327
Posted on 11/18/19 at 9:48 am to TigerMan327
quote:If a punt returner gets to the 45, then reverses field and gets tackled at the 35...does he get it at the 45?
If a WR runs a comeback route and catches the ball at the 21 yard line. But his momentum brings him back to the 19 and then a player tackles him. Does he get the first down?
1
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:16 am to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
During the game the announcers discussed Brees doing his jump at the goal line and extending the ball for a touchdown which is common, but doing it for a first down was questioned as he was not hit and his forward progress was pulled back on his own accord -- so the ball should have been spotted where he stopped rather than his furthest extension.
That made sense to me, did we get away with something that might be called against us in the future or is it a safe call to make in the future?
I'm not speaking to whether or not he pulled it back on his own accord in this instance, but the announcers are right.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:19 am to VOR
quote:
The correct call is to spot at his furthest extension. It’s not that unusual. You only have to get to the marker
This is simply inaccurate.
IF (not saying this is the case), the defense doesn't push Brees back and Brees pulls the ball back on his own, the ball is not supposed to be placed at the forward progress mark.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:21 am to D011ahbi11
quote:
We shouldn’t do that Brees leap unless we’re at the goal line. Do a traditional QB sneak in the middle of the field.
This.
As soon as the ball breaks the plane the play is over.
In the open field the ball could get knocked out of Brees hands
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:28 am to moneyg
They never gave the side angle I don't think but it seemed like Brees fell on the first down line to end the play anyway
Forward progress doesn't come into effect until contact is made by the defense I believe. So the announcers were correct, for once this game, but they also didn't bother to ever see how far forward Brees ended. It's also usually a safe bet to get the spot because typically either (1) someone in the pile is touching Brees, so forward progress is a thing or (2) the defense immediately tries to swat at the ball and his hand, making contact there.
We've also seen them give the forward progress spot on this play in the past, so it might be one of those plays where the officials always technically frick up but it's standard.
Forward progress doesn't come into effect until contact is made by the defense I believe. So the announcers were correct, for once this game, but they also didn't bother to ever see how far forward Brees ended. It's also usually a safe bet to get the spot because typically either (1) someone in the pile is touching Brees, so forward progress is a thing or (2) the defense immediately tries to swat at the ball and his hand, making contact there.
We've also seen them give the forward progress spot on this play in the past, so it might be one of those plays where the officials always technically frick up but it's standard.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:54 am to tigerfoot
quote:
If a punt returner gets to the 45, then reverses field and gets tackled at the 35...does he get it at the 45?
completely different.
Also. In my scenario the WR get's the 1st down everytime.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 11:11 am to CarrolltonTiger
Man those announcers were bad.... just a love fest for Winston and the Bucs.....
Oh well, we won!
Oh well, we won!
Posted on 11/18/19 at 11:20 am to TigerMan327
That is incredibly wrong. If a receiver catches the ball 21 yards past the line of scrimmage and then retreats 2 yards untouched and is tackled 19 yards past the line of scrimmage then it’s a 19 yard gain.
The vast majority of the time a player on a comeback route like that is getting touched as he’s catching the ball so he gets that forward progress, but if you come back untouched it’s where you get tackled.
The vast majority of the time a player on a comeback route like that is getting touched as he’s catching the ball so he gets that forward progress, but if you come back untouched it’s where you get tackled.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 11:22 am to dietcoke7
quote:
Brees pulled the ball back on his own. His forward progress was stopped short of first down. Announcers were right and we got away with one.
Tampa will complain to league. We won't get away with this again. This works for goal line, not in field.
When was whistle blown? I couldn't hear it. He landed on players and the ball was at/near line to gain when he was on top of players. I wouldn't give him the reach spot given he pulled it back. But I don't think he needed it.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 11:24 am to TigerMan327
quote:
Here is a scenario.
1st down is the 20 yard line.
If a WR runs a comeback route and catches the ball at the 21 yard line. But his momentum brings him back to the 19 and then a player tackles him. Does he get the first down?
With no contact, the answer is no.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 12:33 pm to Beauw
quote:
Man those announcers were bad....
Agree, they said the refs gave Kamara a generous spot when he clearly made a first down.
Also on the Cook TD where the defender grabbed the ball out of his hands after he was on the ground. He said, "Wait was it intercepted? No signal yet from the official", while ref is standing there with his arms in the air.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 1:18 pm to dietcoke7
quote:
Brees pulled the ball back on his own.
quote:
Announcers were right and we got away with one.
I watched another QB do this earlier this season and they moved the ball back to where the QB was CLEARLY touched. It was not as big of a scrum as the game yesterday and it was clear that the other QB pulled it back before he was touched. I think that the officials couldn't tell exactly when he was touched, so they used the farthest ball spot.
quote:
We won't get away with this again. This works for goal line, not in field.
I hope Drew doesn't try this in the field again, because had it been clear that he hadn't been contacted before pulling the ball back - they would not have given him the first down.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 3:09 pm to CarrolltonTiger
If Brees brings the ball back on his own going for a 1st down then it should not count. However, on the play this past Sunday, I believe he reached for the 1st, bought the ball back, but ended up falling forward for the 1st down anyway. I know this isn't what the analysts in the booth said but is what I saw.
They also made the point that it is quite different in the goal line because it immediately becomes a TD once it crosses the plane even if he brings ball back on his own.
They were right that had he brought the ball back on his own yesterday and then not advanced forward for the 1st down that he shouldn't have gotten it. I just believe he advanced far enough even after bringing the ball back.
They also made the point that it is quite different in the goal line because it immediately becomes a TD once it crosses the plane even if he brings ball back on his own.
They were right that had he brought the ball back on his own yesterday and then not advanced forward for the 1st down that he shouldn't have gotten it. I just believe he advanced far enough even after bringing the ball back.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 6:16 pm to PokerPlayingTiger
There’s absolutely no way he wasn’t being touched by a Buccaneer with so many bodies around him. Therefore it’s forward progress, first down.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:07 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
I think he got the first with where he landed anyways, but his forward progress would be up when the player touches his helmet
And he shouldn't do it there due to the fumble risk, but at least it was 4th down and not 3rd
And he shouldn't do it there due to the fumble risk, but at least it was 4th down and not 3rd
This post was edited on 11/18/19 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 7:11 pm to CarrolltonTiger
quote:
That made sense to me, did we get away with something that might be called against us in the future or is it a safe call to make in the future?
We definitely got away with one on that play. Goal line and first down are not the same. He pulled the ball back before he was touched.
This post was edited on 11/18/19 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 11/18/19 at 8:34 pm to touchdownjeebus
All of you guys talking about whether he was touched need to read the rule book. Forward progress is about whether the runner is pushed/driven back after achieving a line to gain. Not whether he is simply touched on the helmet. Lol.
All of you guys who think he gets forward progress even if he pulls the ball back need to read the rule book. You voluntarily retreat, you get no forward progress spot.
Announcers were right. Deal with it.
All of you guys who think he gets forward progress even if he pulls the ball back need to read the rule book. You voluntarily retreat, you get no forward progress spot.
Announcers were right. Deal with it.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:19 pm to Putty
quote:
All of you guys who think he gets forward progress even if he pulls the ball back need to read the rule book. You voluntarily retreat, you get no forward progress spot.
Announcers were right. Deal with it.
Exactly.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 10:37 pm to touchdownjeebus
Double agreed on the announcers being right. Wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome, so whatever...
Apologies for the ignorance as I've only watched the game once (it makes me sick to think about even though we won), but didn't something like this come up during the Saints vs Vikings NFCCG in 2009? Involved either PT, Favre, or AP. IIRC, PT got away with the same thing.
Apologies for the ignorance as I've only watched the game once (it makes me sick to think about even though we won), but didn't something like this come up during the Saints vs Vikings NFCCG in 2009? Involved either PT, Favre, or AP. IIRC, PT got away with the same thing.
Posted on 11/18/19 at 11:29 pm to Putty
quote:
Announcers were right. Deal with it.
No. He gained the first and then simply kept the ball from the defense. First down.
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