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Message
re: Zion's effort and fitness
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:34 pm to ThePistol
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:34 pm to ThePistol
quote:
Keeping this team in purgatory with a system and personnel that they know doesn’t work is asinine. Griff failed this offseason. On top of keeping the ill fitting stars together he allowed the roster to have gaping holes. You and I both know there will be no accountability for that but it should be called out.
I'm in a 100% agreement that, considering the assets we had to usher in the rebuild, the roster construction from the second we drafted Zion has made zero sense.
But I also think Zion not even close to living up to the lofty hype handcuffed us just as much as Griff's moves (or lack of moves) have.
Dude was supposed to be top 5-10 player and he's just not that.
0
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:40 pm to Broski
He seems to really be adding different skills to his arsenal every off season like other all time greats.
As you may have noticed, one undeniable change is getting slower, less bouncy, and worst at shooting.
He’s a true pro.
As you may have noticed, one undeniable change is getting slower, less bouncy, and worst at shooting.
He’s a true pro.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 8:59 pm to Broski
quote:
Why are we still questioning it six season in?
Accidentally clicked on this board.
Is this really still a question?
Posted on 10/27/24 at 9:23 pm to Broski
quote:
The problem is the second we accept it, it's over.
Is this a joke?
Posted on 10/27/24 at 9:26 pm to Broski
quote:
Except he didn't play those minutes after playing only 29 minutes last game.
Good try though.
You do realize he will be playing over 30 mins in the next game or two.
He actually worked out all summer and is in shape. He got sick and it's the beginning of the year. Plenty of teams are easing guys in. You're overreacting.
Come back to this thread 10 games from now and let's see if things have changed.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 9:26 pm to Chalkywhite84
I've said it before, but Zion is the square peg in the round hole of roster construction. I'm starting to wish we moved Zion before the sheen wore off. We could have had a king's ransom to build around a pretty decent roster.
It just sucks that we seem to have won the lottery in a year without a guy that carries his team.
It just sucks that we seem to have won the lottery in a year without a guy that carries his team.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 9:30 pm to ThePistol
quote:
When Zion played in the preseason games the offense looked completely different than it did the last two games against Portland? Why is that? I would argue that is because we are trying to thread a needle by allowing Ingram to start games as the primary guy. Since he can’t coexist as an off ball guy they feel they have to do this.
I think the Pels are just trying to pump BI's value up a bit...before moving him for WHATEVER we can get. Doubt it's gonna help much in improving his trade value...but, it's worth a try.
AFTER... BI is gone...we can BEGIN to try & see what we have...when we've got Murray & Trey back...along with Zion, Herb, CJ and I assume Hawk as probably first off the bench & maybe eventually replacing CJ at crunch time...IF he can develope into at least an average defender. CJ is gonna have a huge target on his back...on the defensive end...when/if we get to the playoffs. I consider Missi & Theis to just be "filler"...to play several minutes each...during the game. When you put either one of them on the court...you are severely hurting Zion's offensive game. It's a looong season...& I think the Pels have a plan. Whether they can pull it off or not...remains to be seen.
Posted on 10/27/24 at 9:36 pm to tibebecolston
quote:
He seems to really be adding different skills to his arsenal every off season like other all time greats.
As you may have noticed, one undeniable change is getting slower, less bouncy, and worst at shooting.
I've said this many times. Dude hasn't really added much to his game in 5 off-seasons. The greats add a new trick.every off-season. That kinda tells you all you need to know.
Now he supposedly has bought in but we will all have to see it to believe it.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 1:18 pm to Chalkywhite84
Used to believe that he is the ceiling of the team but after 6 years of this bullshite start to the season, he's a ceiling capping player that will always tease you into believing what he could be but never actually getting there. The work ethic was never there and still isn't there. Still living off of his athleticism after all these years with minimum improvements. It's one excuse after another every year.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 2:29 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
It just sucks that we seem to have won the lottery in a year without a guy that carries his team.
We are in year 5 and is anyone happy about the direction we are going in, despite having young talent all over our roster?
Do we have a better outlook than:
Spurs - Wemby
Magic - Paulo
Pistons - Cade (they still stuck, but it isn't Cade's fault)
Wolves - Edwards
But hey, at least we didn't draft DeAndre Ayton #1 overall.
One thing in common with all of those #1 picks is they all play defense, even Cade. Cade didn't have a great defensive season last year, but he was praised for his defense his rookie year. He's more of a product of a terrible team in general. The rest of those guys put in the work defensively. Zion does not. Getting fancy blocks and reaching in for steals from time to time doen't make someone a good defender.
You know what's also common with those guys? Their teammates and organization all already know that that guy is the leader of the team. We still are waiting for Zion to be the unquestioned leader of the team he was drafted by 5 years ago.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 9:40 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
He actually worked out all summer and is in shape.
There is a saying, “you can’t out-train a bad diet.” I think that’s what is happening here. He looks heavy to me.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 9:59 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
The rest of those guys put in the work defensively. Zion does not. Getting fancy blocks and reaching in for steals from time to time doen't make someone a good defender.
He's capable of it which makes it all the more frustrating. This dude is 6'7" 280 plus and he was giving steph fits on the perimeter late last season
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:08 pm to whatiknowsofar
He lacks self motivation. Only "star" in the league with a consistent year to year decline in production.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:18 pm to Broski
quote:How ignorant a comment. So he plays 29 in his first game back and 28 in a blowout and you bitch that he did not get to 30. So, those extra 1.5 minutes per game is the difference?
Except he didn't play those minutes after playing only 29 minutes last game.
Good try though.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:20 pm to whatiknowsofar
He's capable of it which makes it all the more frustrating. This dude is 6'7" 280 plus and he was giving steph fits on the perimeter late last season
It’s a damn focus issue with Zion on defense (and occasionally just a straight lack of effort). He teases you with a few minutes of quality defense and then stands around flat footed with his head turned and gets burned. Gets lackadaisical and doesn’t block out. I’m starting to think he’s that way with his conditioning. Probably busts it for a few weeks and then loses focus and eats his way out of shape. It’s why he needs so long to get in shape every year. So damn frustrating.
It’s a damn focus issue with Zion on defense (and occasionally just a straight lack of effort). He teases you with a few minutes of quality defense and then stands around flat footed with his head turned and gets burned. Gets lackadaisical and doesn’t block out. I’m starting to think he’s that way with his conditioning. Probably busts it for a few weeks and then loses focus and eats his way out of shape. It’s why he needs so long to get in shape every year. So damn frustrating.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:20 pm to spaghettioeauxs
quote:This is where I blame Willie. Clingan NEVER left the lane in two games. Why is Willie not making this an issue with the refs making them watch for it? It was so damned blatant.
I don’t think it’s his fitness that is the problem. If you watched the game, when he was getting into the paint late 3rd/early 4th. Clingan was just sunk under the goal waiting for him. ThePistol illustrated it much more articulately above.
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:24 pm to Broski
Why do your post still suck 6 years in?
Posted on 10/28/24 at 10:27 pm to TigerBait2008
quote:
Why do your post still suck 6 years in?
It astounds me that a large faction of people on here seriously can't handle Zion being criticized.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 12:11 am to Pelican707
We can whistle in the dark all we want, but this season was doomed from the start when it comes to a playoff threat due to a failure to get a decent post presence who can bring some fairly consistent scoring and physicality. Things get more and more physical in the second half of the season and the Pels have too many long and thin players that will continue to get pushed around when it counts.
Posted on 10/29/24 at 3:46 am to VL Lsutiger
Hundreds of millions to a fat lazy player that mentally is no where close to being a generational player.
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