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re: Zion on the 5 least improved players list in the NBA
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:07 pm to LSUPilot07
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:07 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:He's not even close to December 2022 Zion.
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player
He's not even as good as year 2 Zion.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 6:16 pm
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Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:09 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Tatum technically dropped 2.5 points per game and still seen as a MVP candidate. I wouldn’t say hes having a down year. But he also is unquestionably still the best player on his team. Can you sit here and tell me every game, every night Zion is the best player on this team? Again, Im not asking if he should be; Im asking is he?
No Zion is not every night the best player on the Pelicans. I think if you watched more Celtics you would see that Tatum is not the best player on the Celtics every night either
However, that wasn’t really the point
Zion is not the player he was last year yet, but he’s getting there. The point was that even once he gets there, he will not be close to the 30ppg average that he had when MVP Zion came around last year.
Even if we took December 2022 Zion and played him in place of 2023 Zion for the entire rest of the year, he still wouldn’t come close to averaging 30. Theres too many scorers on this team
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:17 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:This is a problem though.
Zion is not the player he was last year yet, but he’s getting there.
So Zion finally doesn't miss most of a season but now we need him to take half a season to get to his best ball... why?
If you're elite, you're elite day 1, not waiting until 2nd half of the season.
This post was edited on 1/8/24 at 6:22 pm
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:19 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:
Usage rate and shot attempts are down because they CAN be, not because he’s suddenly not the same player imo
Absolutely this.
His scoring average was obviously going to go down with a healthy squad of BI, CJ, Murphy, etc. and that's okay. We have a lot of scoring options. It's hard to get 26-30 PPG with that talent. If a BI and/or Ingram is out, better believe that Zion's scoring would go up.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:19 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:
No Zion is not every night the best player on the Pelicans. I think if you watched more Celtics you would see that Tatum is not the best player on the Celtics every night either However, that wasn’t really the point
Although I wont go as far as saying hes regressed because its hard to judge when there is so much season left, Zion not being the best player 90% of the nights is part of the problem and why people say hes regressing. Ive seen plenty of Celtics games and I can tell you unquestionably on 90% of games Tatum is that teams best player. You ask who’s the celtics best player? Everyone will say Tatum. Now when that same question is asked of the pelicans? Some will say Zion and others will argue BI.
Now is that some sort if regression on Zions part or the team focusing around other players? Not sure. But the hierarchy of this team is an issue and why Zion is getting some flak compared to last year in regards to regression of not playing up to his talent.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:21 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Now is that some sort if regression on Zions part or the team focusing around other players? Not sure. But the hierarchy of this team is an issue and why Zion is getting some flak compared to last year in regards to regression of not playing up to his talent.
I mean Zion isn’t playing to the level he was playing December of last year and BI is also IMO having the best year of his career
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:33 pm to Terrific Tales
quote:
I mean Zion isn’t playing to the level he was playing December of last year and BI is also IMO having the best year of his career
Well I guess I would ask then has this in your mind made BI currently the best player on this team?
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:34 pm to Terrific Tales
If you read the entire article, what do you think about the other 4 players he listed? Did he also “not have any idea what he was talking about” regarding them? Or are you saving that criticism for the player/team you root for?
It’s not as if he singled Zion out. It was an article about 5 different players and he was correct on all of them. Put away your Zion shaded glasses for 1 second and realize sometimes that criticism against your favorite player/team can also be the truth.
It’s not as if he singled Zion out. It was an article about 5 different players and he was correct on all of them. Put away your Zion shaded glasses for 1 second and realize sometimes that criticism against your favorite player/team can also be the truth.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 6:43 pm to 3PieceSpicy
quote:
If you read the entire article, what do you think about the other 4 players he listed? Did he also “not have any idea what he was talking about” regarding them? Or are you saving that criticism for the player/team you root for? It’s not as if he singled Zion out. It was an article about 5 different players and he was correct on all of them. Put away your Zion shaded glasses for 1 second and realize sometimes that criticism against your favorite player/team can also be the truth.
I think he got Nurkic wrong. I think Nurkic has played his role pretty well
Outside of that, you’re asking me if I think the relative performances from last year to this year of Jordan Poole (who is now the #2 option on a team and performing much worse), Deandre Ayton (who is having an awful year), and Mikal Bridges (who is the clear #1 option on his team and performing worse) are comparable to Zion’s drop off when surrounded by essentially an extra 40 PPG?
No. No, I don’t think so.
Posted on 1/8/24 at 7:21 pm to Pels_Yaz
Zion is playing almost every night which is way better than anything he has done the last two years. F he is down a bit who cares. The best ability is availability and he is providing that this year
Posted on 1/9/24 at 9:12 am to Pels_Yaz
Zion’s hustle on defense has improved in recent games. He seems to be rebounding more consistently.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 9:14 am to VOR
His rebounding is still as inconsistent as ever. Those strong rebounding games never last more than a hand full of games.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 9:17 am to supe12sta12z
quote:Correct
His rebounding is still as inconsistent as ever.
He recently had a 6 game span averaging 8.5 rebounds per game with at least 8 rebounds in 5 of those games
Then...in his last 4 games played, he's averaging 4.3 rebounds per game.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:22 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
This is bullshite. Zion has been better on D, rebounding and passing. He isn’t scoring as much but he’s a better player.
He's been better on D for a few weeks and has not been better rebounding. Passing, I guess a little better. But if there's one point I mainly agree with from that article is that Zion should be averaging more assists. He's yet to have a single 10 assist game. He should be averaging 6-7 assists a game. Not sure why we'd be giving him props for improved passing when he's averaging the same assists as he did last year.
We don't need him to score as much as he did in year two, but taking out just straight ppg, his efficiency is down on offense. He's got a lower fg, ft, and 3pt%.
I'm actually a Willie and Zion fan and I like where the team is at. But it's kind of clear that Van Gundy was really the only coach that knew how to get the most out of Zion on offense.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:25 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
But it's kind of clear that Van Gundy was really the only coach that knew how to get the most out of Zion on offense.
The best month of Zions career was with Willie Green
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:29 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
But if there's one point I mainly agree with from that article is that Zion should be averaging more assists. He's yet to have a single 10 assist game. He should be averaging 6-7 assists a game. Not sure why we'd be giving him props for improved passing when he's averaging the same assists as he did last year.
I would argue if you look at his potential assists they have been pretty high. A lot of this is based on crap shooting lineups Willie puts him in. There have been several times where Dyson has clunked wide open shots from Zion. On this specific point his assists have been good but they could be better if Green put more shooting lineups around him.
I agree with your other points though.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:41 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:It does feel like some set the bar way too low for Zion.
Not sure why we'd be giving him props for improved passing when he's averaging the same assists as he did last year.
In addition to your example, I've seen it done just yesterday with a lot of talk of his play improving. It is improving and that's certainly better than not improving from is early season play, but improving to a lesser level than we know he's capable of and has played before still isn't good.
Another example, his effort. Every time Zion gives you 2-3 games of just a little bit of effort, we hear how he's improving. But improving from little to no effort on defense to just giving a little bit extra effort isn't good, it's not enough. Yea, every star takes plays off here and there. But you gotta go out and try at some point to deserve credit. You don't deserve credit for trying a little bit harder than the normal zero effort IMO.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:45 am to iwyLSUiwy
He's not having to do as much this year with the health of Ingram and McCollum.
I rather this zion for a season than a burnt out one for 30 games.
I rather this zion for a season than a burnt out one for 30 games.
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:54 am to htran90
quote:Sure, but that again is a problem.
I rather this zion for a season than a burnt out one for 30 games.
If other teams stars can go all out and have the ball in their hands more which inevitably leads to more wins, and they can do that for an entire season but our star can't, that's a huge issue.
IMO it shouldn't be a comparison of burnt out Zion for 30 games vs this Zion. It should be this Zion vs what the best version of Zion is...because it's certainly a lot better than what we've seen from him this season. It's even a lot better than what we've seen from "improved" Zion the past couple of weeks.
I feel like it's pretty ridiculous that we as fans are conditioned to think it's normal or a good thing that our best player only plays 30 minutes per game.
quote:If these guys were just truly making his life that much easier, and Zion was just picking and choosing his spots, then he should be picking and choosing more efficient spots and have more efficient production. But he has less efficient production than year 2 Zion, so its' more to it than that.
He's not having to do as much this year with the health of Ingram and McCollum.
This post was edited on 1/9/24 at 11:08 am
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:59 am to htran90
I just don't think he's capable of doing what he did last season with any kind of consistency right now. His efficiency is down along with his overall numbers across the board. He's just not as effective and as dominant so far this year. If the game came easy and his efficiency was through the roof, I would buy it. But we just can't sit there and make excuses for him. He's been mediocre by his ridiculously high standards this year.
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