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Started By
Message
2
Posted on 9/3/21 at 8:04 am to LesGeaux45
I see dumb articles all the time.
this one is among the dumber ones.
bledsoe cost the pels the 7 10 scrum.
by himself.
never been so glad to see someone go.
zo will probably drive more now that his ft % is no longer worst in league.
the 17 12 of valunciunas is legit. he hits for 25 and up now and then. he's so much better than adams.
that buys memphis mgmt into lottery. picks an athlete who can't shoot and leaves my 10th pick for the pels at 17th. trey murphy3 is one of the steals of draft. the other being Hyland.
this one is among the dumber ones.
bledsoe cost the pels the 7 10 scrum.
by himself.
never been so glad to see someone go.
zo will probably drive more now that his ft % is no longer worst in league.
the 17 12 of valunciunas is legit. he hits for 25 and up now and then. he's so much better than adams.
that buys memphis mgmt into lottery. picks an athlete who can't shoot and leaves my 10th pick for the pels at 17th. trey murphy3 is one of the steals of draft. the other being Hyland.
This post was edited on 9/3/21 at 8:06 am
Posted on 9/3/21 at 8:20 am to NOSHAU
quote:
That's putting a lot of faith in Murphy as a rookie.
I don’t think it is. Rookies usually don’t have “Winning” advanced metrics, but I’m not asking Murphy to be a complete player yet, I’m hoping he can knock down at least 2 of the 3 3s Lonzo made per game, and I think NAW can fill in the rest of the Lonzo blanks.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 8:22 am to TigerinATL
quote:
If the Pels had the same offseason but got a 1st instead of a 2nd from the Bulls and only gave up 2nds for Graham, most here would think Griff did a good job and dodged a bullet not being able to sign Lowry to a ton of long term money.
The national media that thinks highly of Lonzo still wouldn’t like it, but most Pels fans I think would like the sum total much better. This was an expensive offseason because of things Griff is bad at. But the players in and out were good considering the limits of a bad market. This team feels a lot more ready to live up to it’s potential than last year’s team.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 9:04 am to GOP_Tiger
This guy's offseason evaluation comes down to the same thing that all the others do: the national media has built Lonzo into something that he is probably not. At this point he feels like the guard version of Myles Turner. That is, the media's idea of Lonzo is better than the reality of Lonzo. Pels fans have watched Lonzo for 118 games and were torn on whether or not to retain him, but it seems like the national media, who have probably watched a couple dozen Lonzo games at most, unanimously believe that we should have kept him.
Here's a comparison of Lonzo Ball and Devonte Graham over the past 2 years:
LINK
ORtg
Lonzo 107
Graham 112
PER
Lonzo 14.1
Graham 15.3
Offensive Win Shares
Lonzo 1.9
Graham 4.9
WS/48
Lonzo .072
Graham .084
OBPM
Lonzo 0.7
Graham 2.1
This is all despite Graham being historically bad at the rim. So what accounts for all this?
Graham has a higher TS% because:
He takes a higher volume of 3 pointers
Gets to the FT line far more often (Lonzo's FTr is .101, Graham .240)
Has a much higher FT% (Lonzo 66%, Graham 83%)
Graham also has:
Higher AST% (Lonzo 27.4%, Graham 31.4%)
Lower TOV% (Lonzo 17.9%, Graham 12.8%)
Higher USG% (Lonzo 19.4%, 23.3%)
Lonzo is undoubtedly a better defender. And, depending on team context, Lonzo may ultimately be a better player overall (although I don't believe that the Bulls with Lavine, DeRozan, and Vucevic is a great fit for Lonzo). However, it's pretty clear that Lonzo and Graham are in the same tier of player. This guy gave our offseason a D+primarily because we "got a lot worse with [our] lead guards." However, the analytics appear to disagree.
I would probably give our offseason a B-. It sucks that no top-end FAs wanted our money, but that may be a blessing in disguise. Before FA, very few on this board wanted Lowry at 3/$90. Overall, though, I thought Griffin pivoted pretty well. I believe that the roster improved, both from a fit and talent standpoint. We also retained flexibility to improved the roster down the line. Based on SVG's performance and what we saw from Willie in summer league, I also think that the coaching improved. I don't think we will make some sort of huge leap forward this season in the way that the Suns did last year. But I expect us to make the play-in at minimum, and sneak into a top-8 seed if things go right. Or maybe I just have the same irrational post-offseason hope that I experience every year. Time will tell. Can't wait for the season to finally start so we have actual basketball to talk about.
Here's a comparison of Lonzo Ball and Devonte Graham over the past 2 years:
LINK
ORtg
Lonzo 107
Graham 112
PER
Lonzo 14.1
Graham 15.3
Offensive Win Shares
Lonzo 1.9
Graham 4.9
WS/48
Lonzo .072
Graham .084
OBPM
Lonzo 0.7
Graham 2.1
This is all despite Graham being historically bad at the rim. So what accounts for all this?
Graham has a higher TS% because:
He takes a higher volume of 3 pointers
Gets to the FT line far more often (Lonzo's FTr is .101, Graham .240)
Has a much higher FT% (Lonzo 66%, Graham 83%)
Graham also has:
Higher AST% (Lonzo 27.4%, Graham 31.4%)
Lower TOV% (Lonzo 17.9%, Graham 12.8%)
Higher USG% (Lonzo 19.4%, 23.3%)
Lonzo is undoubtedly a better defender. And, depending on team context, Lonzo may ultimately be a better player overall (although I don't believe that the Bulls with Lavine, DeRozan, and Vucevic is a great fit for Lonzo). However, it's pretty clear that Lonzo and Graham are in the same tier of player. This guy gave our offseason a D+primarily because we "got a lot worse with [our] lead guards." However, the analytics appear to disagree.
I would probably give our offseason a B-. It sucks that no top-end FAs wanted our money, but that may be a blessing in disguise. Before FA, very few on this board wanted Lowry at 3/$90. Overall, though, I thought Griffin pivoted pretty well. I believe that the roster improved, both from a fit and talent standpoint. We also retained flexibility to improved the roster down the line. Based on SVG's performance and what we saw from Willie in summer league, I also think that the coaching improved. I don't think we will make some sort of huge leap forward this season in the way that the Suns did last year. But I expect us to make the play-in at minimum, and sneak into a top-8 seed if things go right. Or maybe I just have the same irrational post-offseason hope that I experience every year. Time will tell. Can't wait for the season to finally start so we have actual basketball to talk about.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 9:36 am to CelticDog
Why do you have such a weird writing style
Posted on 9/3/21 at 9:59 am to GOP_Tiger
The valanciunas swap was one of the bigger points of the off season to me.
You now have a guy who will play much better than adams and you don't have to worry about.
This guy is super high on lonzo.
You now have a guy who will play much better than adams and you don't have to worry about.
This guy is super high on lonzo.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 10:51 am to Chalkywhite84
Did he say Val and Adams were a wash?? Lol
Posted on 9/3/21 at 10:53 am to TackySweater
quote:
Why do you have such a weird writing style
He’s 83 years old, give him a break
Posted on 9/3/21 at 11:57 am to TackySweater
writing style counts on your brain.
like whn leav off letrs
like whn leav off letrs
Posted on 9/3/21 at 12:26 pm to TackySweater
quote:
did he he say Val and Adams were a wash?
I love this board. Last off-season Adams and Bledsoe were rock solid defensive vets that would help us get to the postseason. Barely a step down from Holiday and Favors. This year they are all straight trash. Val and Graham are now offensive gems that are huge upgrades and will put us over the top.
Rinse and repeat every off-season..
Posted on 9/3/21 at 1:06 pm to brmark70816
Players suddenly getting old is something that has happened to us in both of the last two years. Redick, Favors, Bledsoe, and Adams all saw a dramatic decline in their play.
And it wasn't just with us. Favors was straight trash last season for Utah. Redick was terrible at Dallas and is unsigned for the upcoming season.
It's a worry with Valanciunas, Satoransky, and obviously Temple. I said in another thread that the possibility of JV suddenly getting old is one of the biggest risks of this upcoming season. But, we saw a serious athletic decline from Steven Adams last season, and it's more likely that he will continue to decline than the chance that we see a decline from JV.
And it wasn't just with us. Favors was straight trash last season for Utah. Redick was terrible at Dallas and is unsigned for the upcoming season.
It's a worry with Valanciunas, Satoransky, and obviously Temple. I said in another thread that the possibility of JV suddenly getting old is one of the biggest risks of this upcoming season. But, we saw a serious athletic decline from Steven Adams last season, and it's more likely that he will continue to decline than the chance that we see a decline from JV.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 1:26 pm to LesGeaux45
Zach Harper can suck on a D+
Posted on 9/3/21 at 1:29 pm to brmark70816
quote:Not to mention the positive trajectory of our young core. It’s like they forget we have 2 all stars and a group of other young improving players.
love this board. Last off-season Adams and Bledsoe were rock solid defensive vets that would help us get to the postseason. Barely a step down from Holiday and Favors. This year they are all straight trash. Val and Graham are now offensive gems that are huge upgrades and will put us over the top.
Posted on 9/3/21 at 1:38 pm to GOP_Tiger
I’m not too worried about JV outside of general fit,
The thing with Adam’s, and it was one of the reasons I and a few others didn’t like the trade from the onset, despite a TON of naysayers trying to claim Adams was this great player and worth the price tag, and that was the fact that he has been in steady decline.
This wasn’t some new thing.
Adams was unplayable at key points in the playoffs the previous two seasons and both of those seasons saw a similar trajectory with Adams over the course of a season. Where he starts out looking like a Gobert-esque beast around the rim and on the boards, but the wear and tear accumulates faster and faster and he is a fraction of what he was by the end of seasons and into meaningful basketball.
For both Adam’s and the Grizzlies I think the relationship has a decent shot of working if Jaren Jackson can stay healthy. Since ideally they may be able to keep Adam at or under 25mpg and load manage him. But at the end of the day he’s a type of center that no matter what shape he is in, is just not as playable in today’s game because of his inability to switch, hedge and recover, or hit shots.
The thing with Adam’s, and it was one of the reasons I and a few others didn’t like the trade from the onset, despite a TON of naysayers trying to claim Adams was this great player and worth the price tag, and that was the fact that he has been in steady decline.
This wasn’t some new thing.
Adams was unplayable at key points in the playoffs the previous two seasons and both of those seasons saw a similar trajectory with Adams over the course of a season. Where he starts out looking like a Gobert-esque beast around the rim and on the boards, but the wear and tear accumulates faster and faster and he is a fraction of what he was by the end of seasons and into meaningful basketball.
For both Adam’s and the Grizzlies I think the relationship has a decent shot of working if Jaren Jackson can stay healthy. Since ideally they may be able to keep Adam at or under 25mpg and load manage him. But at the end of the day he’s a type of center that no matter what shape he is in, is just not as playable in today’s game because of his inability to switch, hedge and recover, or hit shots.
This post was edited on 9/3/21 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 9/3/21 at 10:30 pm to Bronc
I don't get the people that claim Adams will work with the grizzlies.
You hated the trade when the pelicans traded for him but you think he will be fine with the Grizzlies.
You just saw him look bad with the pels.
Jv is going to be such an upgrade.
You hated the trade when the pelicans traded for him but you think he will be fine with the Grizzlies.
You just saw him look bad with the pels.
Jv is going to be such an upgrade.
Posted on 9/4/21 at 4:07 am to Chalkywhite84
What is there not to get?
Hating the trade for the Pels due to cost, role, and fit and thinking he can conditionally work better for the Grizz than us is not a mutually exclusive idea. And it also doesn’t mean I need to think Adams is some stud player. Or that I think Memphis was smart in trading for him.
Adams in a vacuum is not a terrible player, he’s just not who he was and the game and his body is forcing him into being more and more of a part-time utility player. But we brought him in to be an anchor and paid a premium for the privilege. It was a dumb move and a few of us said that at the time. It’s not a great move for Memphis either(but they also didn’t give up numerous draft assets), but they do at least conditionally have a better situation to slot Adams into and be successful with Jackson’s spacing and his ability to play the 5 for solid stretches of the game.
Hating the trade for the Pels due to cost, role, and fit and thinking he can conditionally work better for the Grizz than us is not a mutually exclusive idea. And it also doesn’t mean I need to think Adams is some stud player. Or that I think Memphis was smart in trading for him.
Adams in a vacuum is not a terrible player, he’s just not who he was and the game and his body is forcing him into being more and more of a part-time utility player. But we brought him in to be an anchor and paid a premium for the privilege. It was a dumb move and a few of us said that at the time. It’s not a great move for Memphis either(but they also didn’t give up numerous draft assets), but they do at least conditionally have a better situation to slot Adams into and be successful with Jackson’s spacing and his ability to play the 5 for solid stretches of the game.
Posted on 9/4/21 at 5:00 am to GOP_Tiger
+?? Too high.
Posted on 9/4/21 at 9:20 am to Bronc
adams role on memphis may take back seat to jaren Jr. jaren put on weight during his year injured.
so a smaller lineup starts adams on bench.
adams saves some wear and tear and can play vs the big euros.
the deal has got memphis several players. latest: juancho hernangomez for a 2nd round boston pick swap and two players. Kris Dunn and Carson edwards.
they are up to 19 guys now.
so a smaller lineup starts adams on bench.
adams saves some wear and tear and can play vs the big euros.
the deal has got memphis several players. latest: juancho hernangomez for a 2nd round boston pick swap and two players. Kris Dunn and Carson edwards.
they are up to 19 guys now.
This post was edited on 9/4/21 at 9:24 am
Posted on 9/4/21 at 12:23 pm to GOP_Tiger
Not certain JV is an improvement??LMAOOOOOOOO These people don’t watch pelicans basketball
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