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NOSHAU
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2012
8886 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

Not me. But do you think Zach Harper did?
Probably.


ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2551 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
I feel like all of the offseason negativity around the Pels is 100 percent Ball related.

This dude has to be the most overrated player in the league.

IMO, it all comes down to who's right on Ball.

Looking at the stats, I admit, I didn't think Bled would be such a huge drop off to Jrue as he was.

But the clues were in how happy Milwaukee fans were to dump him.

Graham seemed to be very well liked by the fans in Charlotte so I don't think it's a situation of the stats lying.

Personally, I don't see Ball getting much better. He may get better on D, but his finishing ability will always be terrible and that makes him an unplayable PG in the halfcourt.


NOSHAU
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2012
8886 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

I feel like all of the offseason negativity around the Pels is 100 percent Ball related.

This dude has to be the most overrated player in the league.

IMO, it all comes down to who's right on Ball.

Looking at the stats, I admit, I didn't think Bled would be such a huge drop off to Jrue as he was.

But the clues were in how happy Milwaukee fans were to dump him.

Graham seemed to be very well liked by the fans in Charlotte so I don't think it's a situation of the stats lying.

Personally, I don't see Ball getting much better. He may get better on D, but his finishing ability will always be terrible and that makes him an unplayable PG in the halfcourt.
I think much of the confidence some have in the team making significant improvment is more due to the irrational hate for Ball that some have rather than really even knowing enough about whether Graham can be an improvement.


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whatiknowsofar
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
11960 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
I'm so sick of all the offseason narrative bull shite. Our team wasn't as bad as our record last year if you watched all the games like I did.

The two most important stats of last year:

The Pelicans only won three of their 13 games that were 3-points or closer, one of the worst marks in the NBA.

Their 14 losses after holding double-digit leads were the most in the NBA.

That's more on youth than anything else. Not learning how to close games is why we failed last year. We got marginally better in certain spots, marginally worse in some, and changed coaches, and our two best players got older and will most likely play better.

Even in the thread Bronc linked, I said shooting is overrated and I was still right this year. Milwaukee was 10th in 3pt% this year and .6% from being middle of the road from 3. I hammered on defense being the most important thing, and I really think NAW will be a better defender than Ball, Zion will get better, and it can't get worse for BI on that side. Here's to hoping but we're gonna be in the mix this year for the playoffs. Too much talent to not be.


LesGeaux45
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8744 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

The Pelicans only won three of their 13 games that were 3-points or closer, one of the worst marks in the NBA


They have to, have to, have to get better in clutch situations. There was the stat floating around that they were like 10 games over .500 if you stopped the games after 45 minutes at one point late in the year which is mind boggling. Your stars need to be able to carry you in those moments, so hopefully Zion and BI have learned from last year's failures. Not having Bledsoe and Lonzo out there having constant mental lapses won't hurt either.


Don Pel
Member since Feb 2019
106 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

What we witnessed was a Grif panic attack during this off-season.


Where was the panic? Why, because we were “front runners” for Kyle Lowry and ended up with Devonte Graham?

Or was it extending an offer to Chris Paul to possibly win a championship and maybe retire with the franchise he was drafted by, idk. Where was the panic?

Is it because we lost a budding superstar in Lonzo Ball?

Is because we didn’t make a splash signing in one of the weakest free agent pools to date? I don’t get it.

Harper’s biggest selling points are “losing” Ball all while not upgrading at his position. On top of that giving up a frp to do it. Which is a fair assessment if basketball was played on paper.

I think the moves we made this off-season allows extreme flexibility moving forward and we made the necessary changes to allow our players to elevate and evolve their games.

A classic Cinderella Story for the making. In other news…. man, I can’t wait for Zion to dunk on somebody!!!



GOP_Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
8938 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

They have to, have to, have to get better in clutch situations.


I keep saying it, but a significant part of the problem was that our starting center couldn't close games for us, because he can't shoot free throws. The Valanciunas for Adams swap means that we have another quality option in crunch time. I am absolutely fine with us running a play for JV to win a game. Even if we don't, the threat means that teams can't just try to double Zion and BI as soon as they get the ball.

Yes, we will be better in the crunch because Zion and BI will mature and improve, but adding JV might help even more.


Soggymoss
Member since Aug 2018
7432 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
Well this is just all wrong


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LesGeaux45
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8744 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

What we witnessed was a Grif panic attack during this off-season


Yeah I would argue the "panic" off-season is trading for Kevin Love or Porzingis or signing Lauri to a big deal and taking on long term risky money just for the sake of doing something. They misread the market for sure, but I'll give them credit for maintaining flexibility to make a big move during the year with the TPE, Hart, Sato, etc. if the opportunity presents itself.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
55668 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
If the Pels had the same offseason but got a 1st instead of a 2nd from the Bulls and only gave up 2nds for Graham, most here would think Griff did a good job and dodged a bullet not being able to sign Lowry to a ton of long term money.

The national media that thinks highly of Lonzo still wouldn’t like it, but most Pels fans I think would like the sum total much better. This was an expensive offseason because of things Griff is bad at. But the players in and out were good considering the limits of a bad market. This team feels a lot more ready to live up to it’s potential than last year’s team.


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LesGeaux45
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Nov 2009
8744 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
Yeah I'm not even so much worried about the picks they gave up. I think they probably sold high on that Lakers pick given the moves the Lakers ended up making this off-season. And if the pick does end up conveying in the Graham deal, it means we were a playoff team which will ease the blow for sure.

The worst part to me is locking yourself out of being able to trade a first rounder before 2024 if a big name becomes available. Sure you could still easily trade the Lakers pick, both Bucks, 2 of your own, a couple of swaps, and some of the young guys and put together a hell of an offer. But is the other team going to be okay waiting 2+ years before the first pick conveys? It's a risk that didn't exist before that you'll now have to deal with. That's the most disappointing thing.


armsdealer
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2016
3241 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
If Ball would drive to the basket more he’d be a much better player for the Pels. I am torn on not matching (only after we dumped Bledsoe and Adam’s) but if he didn’t want to be in Nola then I support letting him go.

I truly believe we make that playoffs last year if rotations are adjusted mid season. Moving Bledsoe and Adam’s to the second unit and playing other guards and Hayes more would have tipped the hand in several games. We will never know because we had Les Miles of the NBA calling the shots.

I don’t know if we got more or less talented, but we have tons of talent. I think we got some pieces that fit better around Zion and maybe some pieces that can create some space for BI, Zion seems unaffected by no space, BI looks so much better with a little room to work.


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GOP_Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
8938 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

the Pels got consistently lit up by opposing guards last season, and they didn’t do much to address the problem. In fact, they traded away two of the best perimeter defenders on the roster — Ball and Bledsoe


I didn't even notice this in the article the first time I read it. It's so stupid as to be beyond belief.

:rotflmao:


GOP_Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
8938 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

Yeah I'm not even so much worried about the picks they gave up. I think they probably sold high on that Lakers pick given the moves the Lakers ended up making this off-season. And if the pick does end up conveying in the Graham deal, it means we were a playoff team which will ease the blow for sure.

The worst part to me is locking yourself out of being able to trade a first rounder before 2024 if a big name becomes available. Sure you could still easily trade the Lakers pick, both Bucks, 2 of your own, a couple of swaps, and some of the young guys and put together a hell of an offer. But is the other team going to be okay waiting 2+ years before the first pick conveys? It's a risk that didn't exist before that you'll now have to deal with. That's the most disappointing thing.



+1. What it will likely mean, if we are in the trade market for a big-name player, is that we'll have to involve a 3rd team that has a good pick next year. It just likely makes that trade that more expensive.

But the flip side is that we need to be good enough to be in solid playoff position at the deadline to get that player, so Griff did what he had to do.


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irvchilichill1
LSU Fan
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2009
718 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
I for 1 am glad we missed on the "targets." That would have relegated us to mediocrity or less for an exorbitant amount and having to use assests to make moves.
Griff dodged a bullet that would have been self-inflicted.
This team will be just as good if Lowry was here and close to as good even if Paul, assuming both scenarios had them healthy. Lowry would of been catch and shoot like Lonzo and Point Zion is minimal if Paul was around, hoping he stays healthy and we can adjust proficiently if he's not...

Offseason is a B-. Joe, Graham, NAW, Trey and re-signing Hart is where our fortunes are to tied to this year. And not on the offensive end. Its defense mostly. 3 will determine whether we are better defensively. NAW and Graham will determine whether we score 110 a game and not be a negative overall. Period.

Its pretty clear how this team wins games this year. Push Zion, 3 pt kickouts, BI midrange, team defense, opportunistic transition similar to Warriors.





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Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
25780 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

Yeah I'm not even so much worried about the picks they gave up. I think they probably sold high on that Lakers pick given the moves the Lakers ended up making this off-season. And if the pick does end up conveying in the Graham deal, it means we were a playoff team which will ease the blow for sure.

Yeah, I don’t get the hate for the Graham trade. Either it was a good trade because it gets us to the playoffs and only cost a mid to late first, or it was a decent trade as we only sent out a couple second round picks for a value contract for a sixth man type of player. There is no scenario that exists where the trade was bad value, unless somehow Graham sucks and we still end up making the playoffs (which isn’t very likely at all).


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50
Epic Cajun
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
25780 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
quote:

I didn't even notice this in the article the first time I read it. It's so stupid as to be beyond belief.

The Pels sucked dick on perimeter defense last season, can you believe they traded away the players that played perimeter defense for them and then drafted a long 3 and D player?

Does this clown not realize what he just said?


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
55668 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
There’s a massive disconnect between highlight Lonzo and every play Lonzo. People that watch every game know he’s never met a screen he wouldn’t die on. People that just see highlights know he has a reputation as a good defender and saw a few highlights like the game saving stop. Confirmation bias.

And Lonzo is not a bad defender, he’s just limited and shouldn’t be your lead, which is what the Pels needed.


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80
P bean
LSU Fan
br
Member since Dec 2006
3671 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
Zach Harper is a clown.

Literally writes that Ball is way better than Graham (he isnt) and that Valanciunas isnt wayyy better than Steve Adams.

Adams goes for 9/8 and Valanciunas goes for 17/12 and theyre equals?

Get the frick.


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GOP_Tiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
8938 posts

re: Zach Harper in The Athletic Grades Our Offseason - D+
I just figured out what really pissed me off about this article. I've laughed at it a lot, but what makes me mad is the dishonesty. If someone is going to grade our offseason on the basis of the picks we gave up, I can accept that. And if someone wants to grade our offseason by all-but-ignoring the drafting of Trey Murphy, because he's just a rookie and we all know that rookies rarely make a positive contribution to winning play, then I can accept that.

What I can't accept is both of things simultaneously. If Harper is only grading us on how much we improved for next season, then he needs to shut up about the draft picks we spent. If he's grading us for the long term, then he needs to acknowledge the fact that, if the draft were re-done today, Trey Murphy would easily go in the top ten, and that he dominated players drafted higher than him in the summer league.


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