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ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2177 posts

Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
If we simply replaced Ingram with Brogdon and gave Ingram's minutes to Marshall/Hart would we be better or worse?


Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
5070 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Who?

It’s what I rarely see included in these BI fire sale discussions(glad you did).

Who is actually realistically available, that the opposing team would sign off on, that is a clear upgrade over BI? Brogdon might be a real get, but even that I’m not sure.

Edit: But assuming he is made truly available, the age would be my sticking point. Ingram is 23 and still improving season over season, Brogdon is 28 and largely a finished product.

I don’t think I would melt but I think we would regret that one.

This post was edited on 5/5 at 12:21 pm


ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2177 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

Who is actually realistically available, that the opposing team would sign off on, that is a clear upgrade over BI?



Fair point. Scanning the list there aren't many that I would think would be available.

My question was more roster construction overall. With Zion is a playmaking PG more important than a SF who can score but can't play D?

Obviously, Ingram should not be given away for peanuts but should we be on the lookout to move him when a PG does become avaialable?


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26874 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Depends on the kind of point guard. Most you see are one dimensional, shoot first. Which I don't know if that helps you out.

Brogdon at 24 I think you'd consider that trade because he can be that guy, and they would give you more value.

As much as I think we need a pg, wings esp ones who can score at all 3 levels are more valuable.


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Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
5070 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Yeah for the right fit I’m down. For me BI isn’t exactly untouchable like he was ending last season, but I do think he is better as a prospect than people give him credit for.

So I agree in that I want a good return.


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J_Hingle
LA
Member since Jun 2013
3568 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

Ingram is 23 and still improving season over season


What has he improved on since last season? Not being a dick but I keep seeing people say that he is going to continue to improve but he seems like the same guy as last season or maybe took a step back. Maybe his peak was hit last season and this is who he is. Which is not a bad thing. A guy that can average around 24 - 25 and shoot 40% from 3
This post was edited on 5/5 at 12:54 pm


ghost2most
LA-Lafayette Fan
Member since Mar 2012
2177 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

What has he improved on since last season? Not being a dick but I keep seeing people say that he is going to continue to improve but he seems like the same guy as last season or maybe took a step back. Maybe his peak was hit last season and this is who he is. Which is not a bad thing. A guy that can average around 24 - 25 and shoot 40% from 3



That's kind of where I am with him.

He's too Carmelo Anthonyish to me. And Melo never won shite.


CP3forMVP
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Nov 2010
9146 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
I don't think trading BI for a PG is the answer, but I do feel like if the team can't get an elite wing defender to put next to him they may be faced with retooling.


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Soggymoss
Member since Aug 2018
6947 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
It would take far more to trade for Ingram.

I would look at Atlanta for an Ingram trade.

Reddish, Hunter, Okongwu and Gallo along with picks for Ingram.

Before anyone says anything, yes it would take that type of package to pry away a 23 year old all star player.


Billy Mays
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Mandeville
Member since Jan 2009
23392 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Ingram needs his own board or a pinned thread FFS - every goddamn day there's a new thread


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Macintosh504
Hawaii Fan
Loving Spirits University
Member since Sep 2011
45362 posts
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re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Not for Brogdon


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TotesMcGotes
Virginia Fan
New York, New York
Member since Mar 2009
26050 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
Kings ownership thought Buddy was the next Steph. Maybe we can convince them BI is the next KD and get them to send over De’Aaron Fox.


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greewe
Kansas Fan
Member since Jul 2019
132 posts
 Online 

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
First off, his defense stinks. He needs to improve on that end of the floor. However, offensively, he has improved substantially this season.

ORtg last year: 112
ORtg this year: 116

PER last year: 18.8
PER this year: 19.2

OWS last year: 3.3
OWS this year: 4.1

WS/48 last year: .115
WS/48 this year: .122

OBPM last year: 2.5
OBPM this year: 3.6

AST:TO last year: 4.2:3.0 (1.37)
AST:TO this year: 4.9:2.5 (1.92)

Additionally, because he typically sees 4 bodies in the paint (Zion+his defender and Adams+his defender), he has taken only 14.4% of his shot attempts at the rim. Last season, he took 24.8% of his attempts at the rim. We all talk about how the lack of spacing hurts Zion. But in my opinion, the lack of spacing really hurts guys like BI and Bledsoe (who plays his best when he can get into the paint) as well.

Last year he was an All-Star and MIP. This year, he has improved his offensive efficiency despite taking more difficult shots than last year, and improved his playmaking for others. He stinks on defense, and needs to get way better on that end. But offensively, he is better than last season in just about every facet.


Pistol44
New Orleans
Member since Jun 2019
379 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
In general, you should not trade your best player unless they request/demand a trade, just saying ......


TeddyPadillac
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Dec 2010
18854 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

He's too Carmelo Anthonyish to me. And Melo never won shite.



c'mon man.
Do you guys realize BI is averaging 5apg? Carmelo was a 3apg guy. Almost everything you look at between the two, BI is better.


BI is taking nearly the same amount of shots this year as last, scoring the same with similar shooting shooting percentages, but turning it over less and getting more assists, but he hasnt' gotten better? He's been better offensively.
He's obviously gotten worst defensively somehow, and his clutch stats have been poo, but maybe if he had someone who could aleve that pressure as a ball handler/creator, he'd be better late in games. BI is literally the only guy on the team that can get his own shot whenever he wants. If Zion gets stopped from driving, and the shot clock starts winding down, we throw it to BI and say "hurry up and get a good shot on your own, good luck".

Replacing BI leaves us with the same issue, only having 1 perimeter player capable of generating offense for themself, that's assuming we replaced him with someone who is as good as him offensively.

BI needs help to be better. The question should be, should we be finding another front court player to pair with BI, or should we be looking to just upgrade BI, if that is even possible b/c i don't know who we could bring in that is going to be better.


I think the goal this offseason should be to bring in Brogdon, and keep Lonzo and BI. Bledsoe/Kira/22 1st for Brogdon.
My next hope is that an eastern conference team like the Celtics see that they need someone that can stop Embiid, and would be willing to send back a late 1st for Adams and the two Cleveland 2nds.
Then use that 1st and our 24 1st to bring in Turner in the deal too or go down to Orlando and get Jonathon Isaacs.


either use some of those firsts to bring in some help at multiple positions now, or use them to bring in a big time player, but the time to start using them needs to be by next offseason at the latest. Don't sit on them like Boston did. Get to work. I want to keep this years draft pick, one of ours or the Lakers 22 pick, the Lakers 25 pick, and the Bucks 27 pick. Those are somewhat untouchable for me right now.


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26874 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

Additionally, because he typically sees 4 bodies in the paint (Zion+his defender and Adams+his defender), he has taken only 14.4% of his shot attempts at the rim. Last season, he took 24.8% of his attempts at the rim. We all talk about how the lack of spacing hurts Zion. But in my opinion, the lack of spacing really hurts guys like BI and Bledsoe (who plays his best when he can get into the paint) as well.


Precisely.

Zion isn't a threat outside of 10ft, nor is Adams. They pack the paint and while zion can feast, Ingram isn't strong enough to maneuver down low with efficiency


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Jar_Jar_80
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2013
985 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
I haven't been following Hunter this year but I always see him mentioned on here like we passed on Luka. So I went to see how his doing this year dude been out like 3 months only played in 20 games and here is the kicker is only 3 months younger then BI.

I love how some on here act like every other team young players will keep improving but ours are at there ceiling.


nicj4
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Guadeloupe
Member since Jan 2020
375 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

Ingram is 23 and still improving season

Ingram has already 6 seasons in the league...the real big progress that Ingram can make would be on the defensive side...
He's already a good 3 shooter (38,1% this season and 39% the last season). I don't think he will hit 40% at 3 or more.

He's already a good Free Throw shooter also

But he's especially already 6 years old w/o PO...And this is the real issue.


TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
54798 posts
 Online 

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
If you go that direction with Ingram you don't do it for Brogdon. You'd look for something more like Ingram for Fox.

Ingram being a one way player at a key position on defense is a big roster flaw. It is tempting to just fix that flaw. If you could turn Bledsoe and picks into a top 3&D Wing like Anunoby, what's the better lineup in the next 2 years?

Kira/Lonzo/Anunoby/Zion/Hayes
Kira/Ingram/Anunoby/Zion/Hayes

Regular season you can definitely argue that Lonzo in place of Ingram is a better lineup. But in the playoffs when all of the easy stuff gets taken away, you need someone like Ingram that can create something out of nothing. You have to either move Ingram for another player that can create for themself and others, or Kira needs to show that his elite speed will let him be the guy that can break opposing defenses when they are locked in.


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htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
26874 posts

re: Would we be better off trading Ingram for a PG?
quote:

Ingram has already 6 seasons in the league...the real big progress that Ingram can make would be on the defensive side...
He's already a good 3 shooter (38,1% this season and 39% the last season). I don't think he will hit 40% at 3 or more.

He's already a good Free Throw shooter also

But he's especially already 6 years old w/o PO...And this is the real issue.


Beal
Booker
Lavine

All guards who are very good. Who actually showed a point deep in their career with an uptrend after people thought they "capped".

All 3 had issues with playoffs too.


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