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Message
re: Why is this organization digging themselves in such a deep hole?
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:42 pm to rzd30
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:42 pm to rzd30
quote:
Also I prefer people and teams that say I want to get better today. Not let's see how bad I can really be so that in 3 years I will be a little bit better.
What have we won the last 3 years? Everybody keeps banging on the Sixers for not winning for 3 seasons, when we haven't won crap either. Building a team is a process. They are going a slower route, but everybody is acting like we just got done with a banner season. We sucked last year..
1
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:46 pm to brmark70816
That was due to injury more than anything else.
Posted on 6/30/14 at 11:59 pm to Fearthehat0307
Fearthehat, it is what I meant though as far as bench depth. Seriously.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 1:37 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
That was due to injury more than anything else.
That's what happens when you get soft, injury prone players that have nice contracts with nothing to play for.
Like how we are celebrating picking up career back-up Center that is going to make 15M this coming season. Who by the way just missed half this past season with an injury..
Posted on 7/1/14 at 1:52 am to brmark70816
quote:
That's what happens when you get soft, injury prone players that have nice contracts with nothing to play for.
Injury prone?
Only EG is that.
Not sure what your angle is here.
quote:
Like how we are celebrating picking up career back-up Center that is going to make 15M this coming season. Who by the way just missed half this past season with an injury..
Yet played 82 games the previous year.
He was no back up in 2012 and played major minutes with howard at times.
You are seriously underrating him.
He only counts 8 mil towards the cap
This post was edited on 7/1/14 at 1:53 am
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:40 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
getting asik is a really great value purchase. we didn't get much and got him at market (or slightly below market) price
Seriously. Easily best move of the Dell Monty era, hands down.
Guy is going to turn around this franchise next season. He's going to mask the questinable acquisitions of holiday and Evans
As far as the holiday trade, you have to wear some serious Peltard glasses to at least not acknowledge that it would be pretty enticing to be going into this season with Noel, Payton, and Davis as a young core of a rebuild. And save the Noel BS of being a energy bench guy or injury prone or whatever people say.. This whole board nutted themselves when we drafted him at 6.
I know this goes against message board fandom, but it is ok to be excited about this team and still question moves and play what if. Payton could be the next Westbrook and Noel could be the next Ibaka. Under control contractually with the Pels for awhile with Davis. This board clamored for years to build through the draft like Spurs and OKC and now it's dumb to suggest we may have blew that opportunity?
A lot has to happen for this current team to reach the next level. Everyone has almost reached their ceiling save Davis, Rivers, Withey etc. They have to uncover a true gem at SF and seriously gel as a team to be a contender. Rolling the dice with drafted players will probably be the way we should've went when we look back 5 years from now. The money is just tied up in the wrong place as we stand now IMO.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 3:19 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
As far as the holiday trade, you have to wear some serious Peltard glasses to at least not acknowledge that it would be pretty enticing to be going into this season with Noel, Payton, and Davis as a young core of a rebuild. And save the Noel BS of being a energy bench guy or injury prone or whatever people say.. This whole board nutted themselves when we drafted him at 6.
Well its pretty clear the current front office doesn't trust draft picks. They'd rather take a proven player whose potential is slightly less than a draft pick but with less risk, and I'm fine with that.
quote:
A lot has to happen for this current team to reach the next level. Everyone has almost reached their ceiling save Davis, Rivers, Withey etc.
I don't know about that. If this team stays healthy, it will be the most talent that Jrue and Tyreke have had to play with in the league. I think we could see them improve their ceiling because of that.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 3:30 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
As far as the holiday trade, you have to wear some serious Peltard glasses to at least not acknowledge that it would be pretty enticing to be going into this season with Noel, Payton, and Davis as a young core of a rebuild. And save the Noel BS of being a energy bench guy or injury prone or whatever people say.. This whole board nutted themselves when we drafted him at 6.
Who knows if we would've had interest in payton.
Could've drafted burke instead of noel
It's just a lot of dumb hypotheticals that aren't worth discussing. I wasn't one of the ones excited about noel(the opposite).
quote:
I know this goes against message board fandom, but it is ok to be excited about this team and still question moves and play what if. Payton could be the next Westbrook and Noel could be the next Ibaka. Under control contractually with the Pels for awhile with Davis. This board clamored for years to build through the draft like Spurs and OKC and now it's dumb to suggest we may have blew that opportunity?
I agree to an extent
It's just very unlikely to happen.
quote:
A lot has to happen for this current team to reach the next level. Everyone has almost reached their ceiling save Davis, Rivers, Withey etc. They have to uncover a true gem at SF and seriously gel as a team to be a contender. Rolling the dice with drafted players will probably be the way we should've went when we look back 5 years from now. The money is just tied up in the wrong place as we stand now IMO.
It's just gordon that's holding us back tbh. We're in pretty solid shape other than him.
I disagree somewhat on the ceiling part. If tyreke improves his midrange game to a solid level(not asking for a worldbeater) he'd be nearly impossible to stop. He also has the physical talent to improve even further on D(made some good improvement last year)
Jrue could be a bit more aggresive. He's pretty close to a complete player.
These guys are only what 2-maybe 3 years older than the guys getting drafted?
Posted on 7/1/14 at 5:22 am to LosLobos111
quote:
Injury prone? Only EG is that
What do you consider to be injury prone? Evans has missed at least 10 games every season he has been in the league. Davis has missed ever more than that. Holiday has only played one full season in five and just missed almost 50 games. Anderson has only played one full season in six and missed 60 this past season. Asik just missed over 30 games this past season. Who else does that leave?
quote:
Not sure what your angle is here.
We have a collection of overpaid, soft injury prone players.
quote:
You are seriously underrating him.
Someone has to. I'm glad we filled the hole, but not excited about how we got him and I just don't think he is as great as what everybody says about him. He was a great back-up and a solid starter. Which is what we need. But 15M or 8M a year is a lot of money for a guy that can't play more than 30mpg. I'm dubious..
Posted on 7/1/14 at 7:22 am to brmark70816
quote:
That's what happens when you get soft, injury prone players that have nice contracts with nothing to play for.
Man, you're really stretching it now.
quote:
Like how we are celebrating picking up career back-up Center that is going to make 15M this coming season. Who by the way just missed half this past season with an injury..
Dude, really.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 7:28 am to brmark70816
quote:
Someone has to. I'm glad we filled the hole, but not excited about how we got him and I just don't think he is as great as what everybody says about him.
First question, what alternatives were out there? Not just for Asik, but for some of the others you don't like.
To summarize, is it fair to say that you're 100% committed to building through the draft, period, with picking up one or two gems or role players along the way?
Posted on 7/1/14 at 7:49 am to VOR
I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could have waited another year or two to start collecting young veterans, but I'm not upset with the direction we are taking. I'm really excited about the team this year. I think we have the pieces to be an exciting, winning team.
It does seem like Dell is rushing to throw this thing together, but even if it works better than planned, he probably still won't get any credit. Especially from the media.
It does seem like Dell is rushing to throw this thing together, but even if it works better than planned, he probably still won't get any credit. Especially from the media.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 7:55 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
This board clamored for years to build through the draft like Spurs and OKC and now it's dumb to suggest we may have blew that opportunity?
It's not like everyone that agrees with you is as rational as you. Most people have been arguing Noel's best case scenario + Wiggins vs. an injured Holiday.
quote:
The money is just tied up in the wrong place as we stand now IMO.
If you're advocating a Noel/Davis/Payton core then you're advocating the long term money be tied up in 2 bigs and a PG. How is that significantly different than the current situation other than time frame? Who's to say our 4th big money piece in that situation would definitely end up being a SF rather than an SG?
Evans
Holiday
Davis
Asik
vs.
Payton
Off ball wing to compliment Payton
Noel
Davis
This post was edited on 7/1/14 at 7:57 am
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:08 am to Spitting Venom
quote:
I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could have waited another year or two to start collecting young veterans, but I'm not upset with the direction we are taking. I'm really excited about the team this year. I think we have the pieces to be an exciting, winning team.
It does seem like Dell is rushing to throw this thing together, but even if it works better than planned, he probably still won't get any credit. Especially from the media.
I'm probably in general agreement with you. The trades and acquisitions a year ago can certainly be debated reasonably, although the fixation on Noel by some is misplaced. I doubt the Pelicans would have actually used their pick on him if they kept it.
Maybe it's something like this. With Benson buying the team, the mandate was to start putting together a winner sooner rather than later. When we got AD, a generational player, imo, it perhaps put things on the fast track. We had lucked out and had our prize from the NBA draft. The idea was then to start acquiring young veterans. That obviously was the plan.
I consider Holiday and Evans to be very solid players and good acquisitions, even if a little overpaid. But overpaying was probably inevitable and necessary to get deals done at the time. Yeah, our salary structure is out of whack at the moment. But it's not as permanent or inflexible as some of the naysayers portray. I like the talent on this team for the most part.
ETA: And for those afflicted by the EG flu, it'll be over soon enough.
This post was edited on 7/1/14 at 8:10 am
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:12 am to Tiger Nation 84
quote:
Idk but we will be just like Portland was this year.
is that a bad thing? that's basically our ceiling, except for a magical year here or there where we make the WCF like the grizz a couple years ago. it's just not very realistic to expect chamipionships from a super small market
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:16 am to brmark70816
quote:
Like how we are celebrating picking up career back-up Center that is going to make 15M this coming season.
if you want to lose any credibility in a rational discussion about the pels, you bring up the $15M number
all that matters is his cap hit of around $8.3M and that is the only number that has any relevance to this discussion
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
all that matters is his cap hit of around $8.3M and that is the only number that has any relevance to this discussion
When he got 30min per game 2012-13 he avg'd 10ppg & 11rpg. I'd say that's worth $8 mil.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:26 am to VOR
quote:
First question, what alternatives were out there? Not just for Asik, but for some of the others you don't like.
I'm not being flippant about the situation, but about how we got there. I was all for this deal before last season, when the money would have benefited us (cheapish one year, tougher to swallow the next). Instead, Demps waited a year and also dumped Lopez for nothing in the meantime.
quote:
To summarize, is it fair to say that you're 100% committed to building through the draft, period, with picking up one or two gems or role players along the way?
No, I'm not. I am ok with picking up guys. But I don't want to look like a sucker to all the other teams in the league. We traded a future 1st and are paying a guy 8M (really a lot more) for a guy putting up similar numbers as a guy we were paying 5M and gave away for free.
Check it out..
Asik 2013 (his best season)
30mpg, 10.1ppg, 11.7rpg, 1.1bpg
R. Lopez 2014
31mpg, 11.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 1.7bpg
So, we are paying 3 extra million a year (actually closer to 10M) and gave up a 1st, for less scoring and 3rgp. Plus that Houston team had no other decent rebounders. Nobody else on Houston averaged over 7rpg that season. Is Asik going to put up rebounding numbers like that with Davis also pulling down 10+ and Anderson getting right at 7?
I'm happy we got him and hopefully he solves the position. But I don't get how the rotation will work now. Anderson and Davis will still finish games. Asik will eat up the middle minutes, which we probably could have done with a combination of guys we already have or cheaper journeymen and kept cap space plus draft picks. But I'm sure there are more moves to come (Anderson moving?). So I'm reserving judgment till it's all settled.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
is that a bad thing? that's basically our ceiling, except for a magical year here or there where we make the WCF like the grizz a couple years ago. it's just not very realistic to expect chamipionships from a super small market
Probably so. Although with a player like AD I think we have more of a chance of catching lightning in a bottle than Memphis or Portland. It could happen a la San Antonio IF the stars aligned and Monty grew as a coach.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 8:31 am to brmark70816
quote:
No, I'm not. I am ok with picking up guys. But I don't want to look like a sucker to all the other teams in the league. We traded a future 1st and are paying a guy 8M (really a lot more) for a guy putting up similar numbers as a guy we were paying 5M and gave away for free.
Check it out..
Asik 2013 (his best season)
30mpg, 10.1ppg, 11.7rpg, 1.1bpg
R. Lopez 2014
31mpg, 11.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 1.7bpg
So, we're just going to ignore that you are allowed to play defense in the NBA?
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