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Started By
Message
Some Stats from Game 1 and Adjustments for Game 2
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:26 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:26 am
Obviously neither team shot well at all, especially from 3, although OKC got some key 3's from their bench, going 5 of 10 from Jaylin/Joe/Wiggins/Wallace. Rest of the team was 5 for 22.
I'd like to key in to the matchups for both teams.
Lou Dort made life extremely difficult for BI. That dude is one strong son of a bitch. He's a different animal than say Herb, who uses his quickness, instincts and long reach to make life hard on his opponent. Dort has the quickness and instincts, but he uses his strength to keep opponents away from the rim and makes them take tough shots.
Dort guarded BI the vast majority of the time, almost 60% of the possessions he was on the court. BI was 1/7 with 4 points (2FT's), had 2 assists and 2 turnovers on about 37 possessions, and the team scored 34 points. Dort essentially took BI out of the game.
BI was 4 of 10 against anyone else for 8 points, 2 assists and 1 turnover.
The only other player he guarded for more than 3 or 4 possessions was CJ, when he had those 3 fouls to start the 2nd half. CJ went 1-2 for 3 points with 1 assist and 1 turnover, and the team scored 11 points on the 11 possessions Dort guarded CJ.
Dort gave up 7 points on 13 shots.
BI was 3 of 6 against Jalen Williams.
CJ was 2 of 5 against Jalen Williams.
Jalen Williams gave up 17 points on 20 shots.
Jalen spent most of his time on CJ (46%) and then BI and Trey.
JV was 4 of 7 against Chet for 8 points, had 1 assist and 2 turnovers on 37 possessions. Team scored 28 points. Chet was 2 of 7 against JV for 5 points on 31 possessions.
Larry was 1 of 2 for 2 points on 11 possessions against Chet. Team scored 4 points. Chet didn't attempt a shot on Larry in 12 possessions he guarde him.
JV was 0 for 3 against Jaylin Williams with a turnover on just 5 possessions. That can't happen.
Larry was 2 for 2 for 4 points against Kenny Hustle on 9 possessions. we scored 15 points in those 9 possessions. That is a matchup that needs to be taken advantage of more.
Josh Giddy is not a good enough defender for us to go 2 for 10 against. That's 2 of 6 from Trey, and 0 for 4 from BI/Herb/CJ.
SGA needs to be more involved in defensive plays to wear him down. We were 6 of 13 against him for 15 points and 5 assists with 3 turnovers.
SGA guarded Herb 63% of the time. Herb was 2 of 4 against him, all 3's with 3 assists and 2 turnovers.
Isiah Joe didn't play that much, but we were 3 of 5 against him with Jose going 2 for 3 for 5 points.
Kenny Hustle was abused. We were 5 of 7 against him for 10 points.
Cason Wallace held us to 4-11 shooting for 9 points. Most of his possessions were on CJ, then Jose and Trey. CJ was 2 of 5 against him for 4 points.
Herb guarded SGA 62% of the time, 38 possessions. SGA was 1 of 4 against him for 2 points, 2 assists, and a turnover. Herb gave up 2 points all night on just 1 of 6 shots against him.
Trey guarded SGA on 12 possessions and SGA was 1 of 8 for 2 points and 2 assists.
CJ guraded SGA on only 8 possessions. SGA was 5 of 7 for 11 points, 1 assists and 1 turnover.
CJ gave up 30 points last night on 12 of 19 shooting against the Thunder.
Key takeaways from all that dribble drabble i just posted:
1. Dort is good. We need to get BI opportunities with any other defender on him.
2. Herb is also good. OKC realized this and took less than half the shots against him than we did on Dort.
3. CJ is bad on defense. Gave up 30 points on 12 of 19 shooting. If he gets swtiched onto SGA, we need to throw a double immediately.
4. Larry needs to abuse Kenrich.
5. Ball needs to find JV in the post with Chet on his back more, or pick and rolls with JV need to happen more with the ball handler attacking the rim. If you get the shot over Chet and miss it's ok, JV will get the rebound. Key word there is attack the rim, not dribble slowly and take a mid range fadeaway.
6. We need to seek SGA out on defense and make him work.
I'd like to key in to the matchups for both teams.
Lou Dort made life extremely difficult for BI. That dude is one strong son of a bitch. He's a different animal than say Herb, who uses his quickness, instincts and long reach to make life hard on his opponent. Dort has the quickness and instincts, but he uses his strength to keep opponents away from the rim and makes them take tough shots.
Dort guarded BI the vast majority of the time, almost 60% of the possessions he was on the court. BI was 1/7 with 4 points (2FT's), had 2 assists and 2 turnovers on about 37 possessions, and the team scored 34 points. Dort essentially took BI out of the game.
BI was 4 of 10 against anyone else for 8 points, 2 assists and 1 turnover.
The only other player he guarded for more than 3 or 4 possessions was CJ, when he had those 3 fouls to start the 2nd half. CJ went 1-2 for 3 points with 1 assist and 1 turnover, and the team scored 11 points on the 11 possessions Dort guarded CJ.
Dort gave up 7 points on 13 shots.
BI was 3 of 6 against Jalen Williams.
CJ was 2 of 5 against Jalen Williams.
Jalen Williams gave up 17 points on 20 shots.
Jalen spent most of his time on CJ (46%) and then BI and Trey.
JV was 4 of 7 against Chet for 8 points, had 1 assist and 2 turnovers on 37 possessions. Team scored 28 points. Chet was 2 of 7 against JV for 5 points on 31 possessions.
Larry was 1 of 2 for 2 points on 11 possessions against Chet. Team scored 4 points. Chet didn't attempt a shot on Larry in 12 possessions he guarde him.
JV was 0 for 3 against Jaylin Williams with a turnover on just 5 possessions. That can't happen.
Larry was 2 for 2 for 4 points against Kenny Hustle on 9 possessions. we scored 15 points in those 9 possessions. That is a matchup that needs to be taken advantage of more.
Josh Giddy is not a good enough defender for us to go 2 for 10 against. That's 2 of 6 from Trey, and 0 for 4 from BI/Herb/CJ.
SGA needs to be more involved in defensive plays to wear him down. We were 6 of 13 against him for 15 points and 5 assists with 3 turnovers.
SGA guarded Herb 63% of the time. Herb was 2 of 4 against him, all 3's with 3 assists and 2 turnovers.
Isiah Joe didn't play that much, but we were 3 of 5 against him with Jose going 2 for 3 for 5 points.
Kenny Hustle was abused. We were 5 of 7 against him for 10 points.
Cason Wallace held us to 4-11 shooting for 9 points. Most of his possessions were on CJ, then Jose and Trey. CJ was 2 of 5 against him for 4 points.
Herb guarded SGA 62% of the time, 38 possessions. SGA was 1 of 4 against him for 2 points, 2 assists, and a turnover. Herb gave up 2 points all night on just 1 of 6 shots against him.
Trey guarded SGA on 12 possessions and SGA was 1 of 8 for 2 points and 2 assists.
CJ guraded SGA on only 8 possessions. SGA was 5 of 7 for 11 points, 1 assists and 1 turnover.
CJ gave up 30 points last night on 12 of 19 shooting against the Thunder.
Key takeaways from all that dribble drabble i just posted:
1. Dort is good. We need to get BI opportunities with any other defender on him.
2. Herb is also good. OKC realized this and took less than half the shots against him than we did on Dort.
3. CJ is bad on defense. Gave up 30 points on 12 of 19 shooting. If he gets swtiched onto SGA, we need to throw a double immediately.
4. Larry needs to abuse Kenrich.
5. Ball needs to find JV in the post with Chet on his back more, or pick and rolls with JV need to happen more with the ball handler attacking the rim. If you get the shot over Chet and miss it's ok, JV will get the rebound. Key word there is attack the rim, not dribble slowly and take a mid range fadeaway.
6. We need to seek SGA out on defense and make him work.
6
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:29 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Dort is good. We need to get BI opportunities with any other defender on him.
Every other team sets a screen and tries to get a switch. You do it with Trey and let Trey drag over for a three to pull one of the defenders. We can’t figure out for some reason.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:30 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
We need to get BI opportunities with any other defender on him.
quote:We just don't do this.
6. We need to seek SGA out on defense and make him work.
Obviously I don't watch other teams as much as the Pels but watch a decent amount, and I've yet to find the team who just does not hunt mismatches like we do/don't.
Even when Zion was there, how often would we find the smallest dude on the other team and run a screen to force a switch then give the ball to Zion with that dude on him? It just doesn't happen.
Think about the last play of the game, we screen with Trey and we get a switch...for what? We just switched to an elite defender guarding CJ...what was the point of that?
I'm pretty sure SGA was in the corner guarding Herb, so why not have Herb set the screen and get SGA on CJ for the iso?
What was the specific purpose of Trey setting that screen?
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 10:31 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:44 am to shel311
quote:
Obviously I don't watch other teams as much as the Pels but watch a decent amount, and I've yet to find the team who just does not hunt mismatches like we do/don't.
we do not, and it's infuriating to me.
It's not just the coaching, it's the players as well. If you ever see JV with anyone other than the opposing 5 on him down low, you stop everything you're doing and get him the ball. No different if it was Zion with a guard on him down low. Stop whatever the play was supposed to be and get him the ball asap before the defense switches a big back on them. Saw that happened last night where Giddy was on JV and he's hollering for the ball, and CJ had the ball on the same wing as JV and dribbled to the top of the key to set up a play, and by that point Chet switched back onto him.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 10:54 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:Right, it just doesn't make sense.
we do not, and it's infuriating to me.
It's not just the coaching, it's the players as well. If you ever see JV with anyone other than the opposing 5 on him down low, you stop everything you're doing and get him the ball. No different if it was Zion with a guard on him down low. Stop whatever the play was supposed to be and get him the ball asap before the defense switches a big back on them. Saw that happened last night where Giddy was on JV and he's hollering for the ball, and CJ had the ball on the same wing as JV and dribbled to the top of the key to set up a play, and by that point Chet switched back onto him.
Like, I can explain why we switch so easily and allow those types of mismatches when we are on defense. There is a reason for that, and I get it and it has worked for 2 seasons. Meaning, we switch because if you try to fight over screens that more easily allows for guys to get to the rim and either get shots at the rim or kick outs for 3. We take that away by switching and that is one of the reasons why we don't give up many shots at the rim.
Like it or not(it works, so I can't complain), I see the vision.
But when we're on offense, I simply do not see the vision or the reason why we would never or rarely ever hunt a mismatch...it just makes no sense.
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 10:55 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:09 am to shel311
quote:
Like it or not(it works, so I can't complain), I see the vision.
sure that may work over the span of 82 games in the regular season.
BUt CJ was hunted and scored on at will in this game.
I'm not saying never switch, but if there's no need to switch the pick when the pick is happening 35' away from the basket, especailly on SGA who is not going to rush to the 3 point line and pull up. Just go under the screen and stay with him, which is exactly what Dort did to BI when we had the high pick b/c he knows BI isnt' stepping into that 3 either.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:11 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:It's the style that will produce the most success when you have 4 below avg defenders in your starting lineup over the course of a season.
sure that may work over the span of 82 games in the regular season.
And it worked.
But you can't change that style entirely once the playoffs start. And flip side, you can't not do that during the regular season because then you don't even make the playoffs.
It is what it is. We don't have good defenders.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:18 am to shel311
quote:
Obviously I don't watch other teams as much as the Pels but watch a decent amount, and I've yet to find the team who just does not hunt mismatches like we do/don't.
Spot on. I just don’t understand this. It seems like Basketball 101. Every team does this, but I never see the Pels do it. It’s infuriating.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:22 am to TeddyPadillac
Thanks for putting together, great read
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:47 am to shel311
quote:
But you can't change that style entirely once the playoffs start. And flip side, you can't not do that during the regular season because then you don't even make the playoffs.
You have to make adjustments or you'll just get swept.
If SGA starts scoring on CJ switches at will, then you have to throw a double at him.
And as i said before, stop letting the switch happen automatically and make them earn it. If CJ's man goes set a screen 35' out, then Herb needs to go under it and stay with SGA, simple as that. You don't have to switch just b/c it's the defensive strategy every single time. Just be smarter about it.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 11:54 am to Akit1
It's the main reason I stick to my "Willie isn't a good coach" theory.
Offensively, we never seem to seek out mismatches.
Last night, we mainly lost because we shot like shite.
But, late in the game we did what we usually do. shite the bed. That's Coaching first and foremost.
Let's see who makes the adjustments for Game 2. Unfortunately our coaching staff is usually very SLOW when it comes to adjustments.
Offensively, we never seem to seek out mismatches.
Last night, we mainly lost because we shot like shite.
But, late in the game we did what we usually do. shite the bed. That's Coaching first and foremost.
Let's see who makes the adjustments for Game 2. Unfortunately our coaching staff is usually very SLOW when it comes to adjustments.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 12:17 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Key takeaways from all that dribble drabble i just posted:
Thanks for typing all the info, but Love the cliffnotes.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 1:00 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
6. We need to seek SGA out on defense and make him work.
Very good info. It's hard to "hunt" SGA when he's on defense...mainly because they are gonna put him on Herb and we currently have Herb spending nearly all his time standing in the corner. One of the problems with ANY "dedicated" corner 3 shooter who spends so much time in the corner is that the opponent can "hide" a weak defender by just standing him over by Herb...OR...if they have a player who they wish to rest on defense...they can use the same plan.
It's why you see Herb often guarded by an odd assortment of players...all the way from lousy small defenders (Morant comes to mind) to solid defenders who just wish to rest on defense until crunch time.
(LeBron James takes advantage of this situation whenever possible)
I suspect (& hope) Herb will spend less time next season in the corner as a dedicated corner-3 shooter...and more time developing an overall game offensively. He has solid potential to do this...and it will eliminate a fairly obvious "problem" we have this season, when Herb is just standing in the corner most of the time.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 1:33 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Some Stats from Game 1 and Adjustments for Game 2
Good stuff, a case where the metrics match the eye evaluation.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 1:49 pm to Pistol44
We're just not good in sticking to an offensive game plan. Do it on defense, like last night. But not on offense. Too many freelancers (BI & CJ) who don't like to stick to a set plan, like dumping the ball down to JV 20 times a game.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:25 pm to shel311
quote:
quote:
sure that may work over the span of 82 games in the regular season.
It's the style that will produce the most success when you have 4 below avg defenders in your starting lineup over the course of a season.
And it worked.
But you can't change that style entirely once the playoffs start. And flip side, you can't not do that during the regular season because then you don't even make the playoffs.
It is what it is. We don't have good defenders.
Yep...it's actually rather amazing how well our overall defense has held up this season. The "total" has far exceeded the sum of the "parts". Willie (or whomever else we want to give the credit) has done an excellent job of molding this crew of numerous sub-par defenders into a solid unit.
This lack of individual talent defensively is why I continuously harp on the fact that the Pels desperately need Dyson Daniels to develope into a full-time player at some point next season. He is FAR more important, than most folks realize.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:34 pm to shel311
quote:
But you can't change that style entirely once the playoffs start
No, but for a team's final possession with the game tied, you should have Herb on SGA at all times.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:35 pm to Broski
quote:
No, but for a team's final possession with the game tied, you should have Herb on SGA at all times.
Yup switching CJ on him in the end was beyond stupid. I think AD says the all the time- like why are we switching that??
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:49 pm to Pels_Yaz
I just think it’s crazy the JV on Chet mismatch was so blatant and constant but with 14 seconds on the clock and in need of 2 points he doesn’t get a look. Not to mention he had about 10 offensive rebounds so if he kicked it out and the shooter missed there was a pretty good chance he could have put it back up. That was such a disaster of a last possession man. That was our game to lose and we did everything possible to lose it.
I understand Nance was playing good defense and rebounding but imagine if we had JV in during the 5 minute stretch of OKC not scoring a field goal.. we need offense but we don’t go to the 7’0 280 pound man who literally cannot be guarded unless a double is sent. That’s the most infuriating part
I understand Nance was playing good defense and rebounding but imagine if we had JV in during the 5 minute stretch of OKC not scoring a field goal.. we need offense but we don’t go to the 7’0 280 pound man who literally cannot be guarded unless a double is sent. That’s the most infuriating part
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:53 pm to spaghettioeauxs
quote:
I just think it’s crazy the JV on Chet mismatch was so blatant and constant but with 14 seconds on the clock and in need of 2 points he doesn’t get a look.
I think JV played pretty good but I’m not sure I trust him with the game on the line to get us a game tying bucket. Thats not his role at all or who he is. If you have BI, Trey and CJ on this roster- they should be able to get a shot or gameplan them to get an open shot.
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