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Message
re: ScoopB: All of the Brandon Ingram offers are “crap”
Posted on 7/15/24 at 8:38 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 7/15/24 at 8:38 pm to brmark70816
quote:
don't think we should offer over 4Y/130M (I wouldn't even offer that). But if we offered 4Y/160M and the Nets offered the max, 4Y/208M. You think he should pick us?
If he values winning, yes. We’ve been more than good to him, giving him all the mid range shots he wants to the detriment of the team while he chronically misses 20-30 games every year.
If he wants to chuck shots on a 20 win team for the extra money then by all means go ahead. That guy will never win anything though and you don’t want that kind loser in our locker room so it’s a win-win.
1
Posted on 7/15/24 at 8:44 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
he wants to chuck shots on a 20 win team for the extra money then by all means go ahead. That guy will never win anything though and you don’t want that kind loser in our locker room so it’s a win-win.
I don't think athletes think this way. I'm sure environment matters. But he'd believe that he could turn the team's fortune and the team would be successful somehow. That's the confidence that most would have.
It's a bit deluded to think that we could laude team success as our trump card. We don't have that level of past accomplishments..
Posted on 7/15/24 at 8:50 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I don't think athletes think this way. I'm sure environment matters. But he'd believe that he could turn the team's fortune and the team would be successful somehow. That's the confidence that most would have. It's a bit deluded to think that we could laude team success as our trump card. We don't have that level of past accomplishments..
No we don’t have a lot of success but the nets are in year 1 of a multi year rebuild.
If it was another playoff contender with cap space like a Philly this year then yeah I wouldn’t play that game.
This is a nets team that’s openly tanking and is the only team with the cap space for Ingram’s max. I’m calling BI’s bluff. The nets aren’t winning shite for 3-4 years.
Posted on 7/15/24 at 9:23 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
I’m calling BI’s bluff. The nets aren’t winning shite for 3-4 years.
Is not bluff. It's over 40M. That's a no brainer.
I don't know how fast they can turn it around. This would be next summer. They would have a high pick in a loaded draft, two max slots, and a few decent rotation players. If they get the top pick, draft Flagg, sign Ingram and trade for Young (in a semi-dump), they could turn it around quick. You never know..
Posted on 7/16/24 at 12:38 am to brmark70816
Lot bigger market, and he’ll be the headline of the team so more money in endorsements. Really a perfect spot for him to go.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 6:29 am to brmark70816
quote:
two max slots
They have barely over one 30% max slot, not even one 35% max slot.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 7:25 am to Epic Cajun
Griff did an interview this morning on SXM. He basically confirmed Scoops report.
Basically saying teams are very interested in Ingram and want to add Ingram, but this new CBA is scaring them off from giving up the pieces PLUS having to pay him next season.
He said Pels want Ingram back and Ingram wants to be back, but it has to work financially, and he made it sound like they are very far off on numbers. Said they will play out the season as is basically.
Also stated with the new CBA they have to have cuts somewhere because of the market and they can’t say “You get a max, You get a max” and center is where they decided to go lean so they can play a smaller faster type of ball.
Basically saying teams are very interested in Ingram and want to add Ingram, but this new CBA is scaring them off from giving up the pieces PLUS having to pay him next season.
He said Pels want Ingram back and Ingram wants to be back, but it has to work financially, and he made it sound like they are very far off on numbers. Said they will play out the season as is basically.
Also stated with the new CBA they have to have cuts somewhere because of the market and they can’t say “You get a max, You get a max” and center is where they decided to go lean so they can play a smaller faster type of ball.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 7:29 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
They have barely over one 30% max slot, not even one 35% max slot.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but next summer (25) they only have two big long term deals, Johnson and Claxton. DFS has an option, which I'm sure he will pick up. But those 3 combine for less than 80M. There are some pending guys, like Cam Thomas. But I doubt they will extend him for huge money.
I heard they are looking to flip DFS, supposedly the Lakers want him. They can move him there and get off the option (taking back Russell as an expiring). They could probably include Milton, to make the money match up. If they did that, they would have close to 100M in space next offseason. I think they could swing close to two max spaces. I didn't even bring up them shopping Cam Johnson..
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:18 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Also stated with the new CBA they have to have cuts somewhere because of the market and they can’t say “You get a max, You get a max” and center is where they decided to go lean so they can play a smaller faster type of ball.
frick are we really going into the season with Zion (or BI or Trey whoever you want to call the center) playing 24+ minutes at center and Theis getting the other 24 minutes there? Obviously could just be posturing, but from pods that I've been listening to it sounds like almost all trade/free agent talk is dead at Summer League.
quote:I'd be curious to know what the Pels offer was. Hell DJ, who is in roughly the same tier as BI is on a contract that averages 31.5 million after his trade kicker. Maybe they only offered him something like 4/140.
He said Pels want Ingram back and Ingram wants to be back, but it has to work financially, and he made it sound like they are very far off on numbers.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:25 am to brmark70816
quote:
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing, but next summer (25) they only have two big long term deals, Johnson and Claxton. DFS has an option, which I'm sure he will pick up. But those 3 combine for less than 80M. There are some pending guys, like Cam Thomas. But I doubt they will extend him for huge money.
I heard they are looking to flip DFS, supposedly the Lakers want him. They can move him there and get off the option (taking back Russell as an expiring). They could probably include Milton, to make the money match up. If they did that, they would have close to 100M in space next offseason. I think they could swing close to two max spaces. I didn't even bring up them shopping Cam Johnson..
Look at the other options on the market next summer. They are going to build a winning team with BI as their number one option? Are they going to bring Kyrie back
? Pair Markkanen and BI? Is that a team that's going to even make the playoffs? ETA: I guess my point is that I don't see BI as a "good" number 2 option on a team, and per the trade market this offseason it doesn't appear that other teams view him as that either. Even in this new NBA economy, I don't think that teams would balk at giving a "good" number 2 option a 30% max, that would leave you with 35-40% of your cap left to fill out your roster. But, you can't really afford to give an "average" number 2 option that much of your cap. Essentially the difference between giving a max to someone like Booker versus giving it to Beal.
This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 8:31 am
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:27 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
are we really going into the season with Zion (or BI or Trey whoever you want to call the center) playing 24+ minutes at center and Theis getting the other 24 minutes there?
I'd throw Karlo in the mix, but yeah, we're zigging while the rest of the league is zagging and getting bigger, and I don't think it's going to work out like Griff hopes.
I do see 2 potential ways out, BI being a fall back for Golden State if they don't get Lauri, and Miami would be an option if you can find stuff you want for Herro, which seems unlikely because Miami has been trying to make a trade with a 3rd team wanting Herro for like 2 years and it hasn't happened.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:28 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
I'd be curious to know what the Pels offer was. Hell DJ, who is in roughly the same tier as BI is on a contract that averages 31.5 million after his trade kicker. Maybe they only offered him something like 4/140.
My offer is dropping by the day. I was willing to offer 4/160 until i saw brunson sign for the same.
That's the thing it's not even completely about money. Let's say he signs a friendly deal with us for 4/140-160. He's still a bad fit for this roster and we still need a center.
I'm pretty sure with the extension rules you can't trade him for 6 months. So you have to sign him to an extension by Aug 6th to be able to trade him at the deadline but then you're stuck with a bad fit and no center all the way until the deadline
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:31 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I'd throw Karlo in the mix, but yeah, we're zigging while the rest of the league is zagging and getting bigger, and I don't think it's going to work out like Griff hopes.
It's also such a weird time to Zig. This is a crucial, crucial season for the pels and Griff is going to try and buck the trend of the league by going small? Good luck
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:38 am to Soggymoss
quote:
Said they will play out the season as is basically.
if Ingram is chasing a max contract, this is going to be really bad... he'll need stellar stats and accolades to earn that max, and if that's the case, he'll be even more of a black hole with the ball, taking more contested (more than likely) shots, not increasing his 3pt attempts (he's more confident in his midrange shot)...
honestly, BI is a talented player.... no doubt... but he's just not a good fit with our other star player, isn't a leader in the clubhouse, and trading him, even for a lesser value than you'd expect, would be addition by subtraction, at this point
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:44 am to Balsamic_duck
We are kind of stuck until BI is off the roster, IMO. Trey is the future at BI's position for the Pels.
We don't have salary cap room for a better center until we are able to trade BI or he leaves in free agency next summer. We also need some of BI's salary space to resign Trey.
Optimally, we are able to trade BI now for a better center and free up salary space. Second best would be a trade before mid-season deadline. We may have to bite the bullet and lose BI in free agency next summer because he believes he is a max salary player.
The worst scenario would be to resign him at a max salary for a 4- or 5-year contract. His injury history, lack of efficiency when tough defense is applied, his mediocre defense, etc. do not warrant a max contract in today's NBA, IMO.
The other teams apparently agree with this assessment as "good" offers do not seem to be dropping at the Pels doorstep for him.
We don't have salary cap room for a better center until we are able to trade BI or he leaves in free agency next summer. We also need some of BI's salary space to resign Trey.
Optimally, we are able to trade BI now for a better center and free up salary space. Second best would be a trade before mid-season deadline. We may have to bite the bullet and lose BI in free agency next summer because he believes he is a max salary player.
The worst scenario would be to resign him at a max salary for a 4- or 5-year contract. His injury history, lack of efficiency when tough defense is applied, his mediocre defense, etc. do not warrant a max contract in today's NBA, IMO.
The other teams apparently agree with this assessment as "good" offers do not seem to be dropping at the Pels doorstep for him.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:46 am to chRxis
It seems like there may be teams willing to pay BI (4) 208. But those teams do not want to give up extra assets to do so.
So Pels/ BI are ok splitting ways or staying. But Pels want BI to stay on a discount, BI wants the most money, and Pels want the best return.
If BI and a team announce mutual interest and confirm they will pay him then it will be hard for us to get the return we want. Just have to hope that team has assets we need.
So Pels/ BI are ok splitting ways or staying. But Pels want BI to stay on a discount, BI wants the most money, and Pels want the best return.
If BI and a team announce mutual interest and confirm they will pay him then it will be hard for us to get the return we want. Just have to hope that team has assets we need.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:48 am to TigerinATL
quote:
BI being a fall back for Golden State
That kinda brings up it's own issues though. Do we really want to take back Wiggins' terrible contract? It's easier for them to trade with Utah because Markannen is only making 18 million this season. The Warriors could just throw in Payton and a minimum player with Moody and get to that salary figure. For them to take BI, they have to include Wiggins, or Draymond but I don't see the latter happening.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:48 am to chRxis
quote:
if Ingram is chasing a max contract, this is going to be really bad... he'll need stellar stats and accolades to earn that max, and if that's the case, he'll be even more of a black hole with the ball, taking more contested (more than likely) shots, not increasing his 3pt attempts (he's more confident in his midrange shot)...
I disagree. Him playing the way he has is the reason no one wants to pay him.
Him buying into defense, learning how to play off ball and raising his 3PAs will get him paid far more
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:52 am to PNG Futbol
quote:
The worst scenario would be to resign him at a max salary for a 4- or 5-year contract. His injury history, lack of efficiency when tough defense is applied, his mediocre defense, etc. do not warrant a max contract in today's NBA, IMO.
This ship has sailed, we can't go around saying that we're not paying the max this whole time and then end up doing it. Would set a terrible precedent for this front office.
The worst realistic scenario, IMO, is that he just walks for nothing next offseason because he's butthurt that we played hardball with him. And, while not ideal I'm okay with that.
Posted on 7/16/24 at 8:52 am to PNG Futbol
quote:
We are kind of stuck until BI is off the roster, IMO. Trey is the future at BI's position for the Pels.
We don't have salary cap room for a better center until we are able to trade BI or he leaves in free agency next summer. We also need some of BI's salary space to resign Trey.
Optimally, we are able to trade BI now for a better center and free up salary space. Second best would be a trade before mid-season deadline. We may have to bite the bullet and lose BI in free agency next summer because he believes he is a max salary player.
The worst scenario would be to resign him at a max salary for a 4- or 5-year contract. His injury history, lack of efficiency when tough defense is applied, his mediocre defense, etc. do not warrant a max contract in today's NBA, IMO.
The other teams apparently agree with this assessment as "good" offers do not seem to be dropping at the Pels doorstep for him.
What do you think are the types of offers griff has gotten for BI?
Cuz i would trade him right now for some expirings and 2 1sts.
Is that kind of offer even on the table?
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