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Message
re: Pelicans, one of the teams, reached out to Portland for Damian Lillard
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:35 pm to Pistol44
Posted on 7/4/23 at 1:35 pm to Pistol44
quote:
You weren’t in Dink and myself’s thread coming off the turf toe, so you’re lacking a little context. Dribble, dribble, dribble (your perspective) resulted in an uptick in Herb, TM3, and Val’s play, due to ball and player movement (Barrego’s thing) with Jose, Zion, CJ, and Nance out or severely hobbled.
Speaking of BI (and I MUST)...I think I do a lousy job at times when badmouthing his overall game. Please remember, I do NOT think he should cease to take midrange shots as he has a very solid midrange game. It can come in very handy in certain circumstances.
But...overall, the midrange is a vanishing art, and rightfully so. To cut to the chase...BI should stop his current career path of shooting less and less 3s. Past 4 yrs, he has gone from 35% to 34 to 23 to 19%...in % of his total shots being 3-pt attempts. Playing with Zion and his 3% rate of 3-pters and even Val and his 7% rate...makes it imperative that BI slides back outside quite a bit more.
He's a solid 3-pt shooter but just doesn't seem comfortable out there, for whatever reason. Needs to get to 35-40% of his shots being 3-pters. That will still leave plenty of his shots (65%) being from inside the 3-pt line.
2
Posted on 7/4/23 at 2:05 pm to Dinky Mulberry
It's more the effect of what players we had available. With Zion out and quite a few others out or hobbled, BI had to pound the inside to draw the defense to get others looks.
If we had more cutting, and dominant low post big (JV is nice, but not dominant), or the presence of Zion, it would allow BI to sit outside a lot more.
If we had more cutting, and dominant low post big (JV is nice, but not dominant), or the presence of Zion, it would allow BI to sit outside a lot more.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 2:08 pm to bonethug0180
quote:
It's more the effect of what players we had available. With Zion out and quite a few others out or hobbled, BI had to pound the inside to draw the defense to get others looks.
If we had more cutting, and dominant low post big (JV is nice, but not dominant), or the presence of Zion, it would allow BI to sit outside a lot more.
Good point...and hopefully, we'll be in much better shape this year, and BI can adjust his game accordingly.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 2:15 pm to shel311
quote:
In fairness, we're possibly 1 more injury riddled and missed playoff season away from the window closing on this core.
There's no wiggle room for failure.
We have YEARS left with this core. Even with another injury riddled season, we can still run it back, rehabilitate value, and look for more opportune trades.
A Dame move instantly all ins to a 2 year window, and you will be losing 1 of BI or Zion because the trade isn't happening without someone getting one of them (and if either were offered this would have been done by now).
To whoever keeps piping that we can trade anything otherwise is being delusional. You are going to lose one of them in the trade.
And even IF you could do the other trade and keep both, you are giving up something more than just Kira. It is going to take picks AND a player like Murphy to get it done.
So you are losing either one of your stars, or a potential star and high draft picks, to create this 2 year window.
Instead, we should and will keep the window potentially open for 10-12 years by passing on this and just playing year to year to find something that keeps the window open and makes sense long term.
Basically, injuries makes Zion less valuable, and gives FAR less reason to trade him until he actually plays. You rehab his value and then trade him if you want and feel it's the better long term move. You don't blow it up with years ahead, even if it's not currently working.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 2:38 pm to bonethug0180
quote:
Instead, we should and will keep the window potentially open for 10-12 years
very few cases where teams retain a core this long. Especially a core that’s done nothing to warrant keeping it for a decade This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 3:09 pm to bonethug0180
quote:We can sure, but how many years more do you need as evidence before we realize it just won't work? And I don't mean just no title. I'm talking about 5 years of absolutely nothing, that's what we're up against with another failed season.
We have YEARS left with this core. Even with another injury riddled season, we can still run it back
If that happens, making a major change is likely inevitable and it's should be.
quote:If Miami can't make a 3 team deal work, it's definitely not delusional. It's a long shot but it's in play.
To whoever keeps piping that we can trade anything otherwise is being delusional. You are going to lose one of them in the trade
quote:You can't talk about pipe dreams and delusional then think there's a good chance of this being upwards of a 12 year window. Even with success, the odds of that are extremely low.
Instead, we should and will keep the window potentially open for 10-12 years
And fwiw, I don't want this deal for Zion or BI
Posted on 7/4/23 at 4:51 pm to bonethug0180
quote:
We have YEARS left with this core. Even with another injury riddled season, we can still run it back, rehabilitate value, and look for more opportune trades.
Dude, were you not around six weeks ago? Anyone saying "run it back" got ridiculed. The fanbase needs something to believe in if they are going to buy tickets, and I have no doubt that season tickets sales are poor.
And I'd be shocked if anyone in New Orleans is buying Zion jerseys lately. Zion is not popular, and you think that we could run it back yet again if he's injured most of this upcoming season?
quote:
A Dame move instantly all ins to a 2 year window, and you will be losing 1 of BI or Zion because the trade isn't happening without someone getting one of them (and if either were offered this would have been done by now).
No, trading away Zion or BI would destroy our window, which is why we won't do it. If we were to trade one of them, besides losing too much talent and crushing our window, the fit would be poor. A backcourt of Dame and CJ just isn't good enough defensively anymore (if, indeed, it ever was).
quote:
To whoever keeps piping that we can trade anything otherwise is being delusional.
It depends on what the other offers are. Most teams can't even consider dealing for Dame, because of the money and the years.
Right now, I think that the best offer from the Heat is Tyler Herro and a pick, and Portland can't afford to let Dame go for basically nothing.
quote:
And even IF you could do the other trade and keep both, you are giving up something more than just Kira. It is going to take picks AND a player like Murphy to get it done.
So you are losing either one of your stars, or a potential star and high draft picks, to create this 2 year window.
It would take Dyson for sure, plus a lot of picks.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 4:54 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 6:04 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
And I'd be shocked if anyone in New Orleans is buying Zion jerseys lately. Zion is not popular, and you think that we could run it back yet again if he's injured most of this upcoming season?
Bought one last week actually
Posted on 7/4/23 at 6:17 pm to Bullet91
My 12 year old kids Zion jersey will arrive tomorrow, he hasn't given up hope!
Posted on 7/4/23 at 6:51 pm to Macintosh
quote:
very few cases where teams retain a core this long. Especially a core that’s done nothing to warrant keeping it for a decade
I NEVER said we're keeping the core together that long. Not once.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 6:53 pm to bonethug0180
What I did say was that we have a window, and if we are smart with our assets that window can be extended that long.
If we start going all in now, we kill any chance of keeping it going.
I flat out said (maybe not in that post but in another one) that trading BI or Zion in about 6 years is a great way to keep the window open by making a smart trade with them.
Let BI be our Dame in 6 years, not this year. We'll be getting rid of the 30 something looking for a 20 something to keep the window open.
If we start going all in now, we kill any chance of keeping it going.
I flat out said (maybe not in that post but in another one) that trading BI or Zion in about 6 years is a great way to keep the window open by making a smart trade with them.
Let BI be our Dame in 6 years, not this year. We'll be getting rid of the 30 something looking for a 20 something to keep the window open.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:02 pm to bonethug0180
It's not ridiculous if all things go perfectly
Zion is 23 in a couple if days
Trey is 23 as of a couple weeks ago
Ingram will be 26 this year
They all play 3 different roles. Health is the biggest question mark that will dictate them winning or not.
Zion is 23 in a couple if days
Trey is 23 as of a couple weeks ago
Ingram will be 26 this year
They all play 3 different roles. Health is the biggest question mark that will dictate them winning or not.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:03 pm to GOP_Tiger
It took all of 30 games last year for the huge wall mural in the practice facility with BI in the center and BI being announced last in the starting lineup to look ridiculous. If Zion is healthy, he will be immensely popular. And it won’t take very long at all.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:07 pm to bonethug0180
Zion is a generational talent that if healthy will do things and break records never before seen. He sucks now cause he is always hurt. Let’s see if he can play most of this year.
People will be screaming from the rafters this man’s name. We all saw what this team could do with just him being healthy. We have some really nice players with Mc, Trey, Jones, etc…
Hopefully we see a normal injury year for our big guns meaning them playing 65-70 games each.
People will be screaming from the rafters this man’s name. We all saw what this team could do with just him being healthy. We have some really nice players with Mc, Trey, Jones, etc…
Hopefully we see a normal injury year for our big guns meaning them playing 65-70 games each.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:09 pm to htran90
That's why I think you have to give the core about 5 to 6 years and then reevaluate, unless a great deal presents itself in the meantime.
Trading for Dame and closing our window is not that great deal. It's limiting us to win now and will cause everything to implode in 2 years. Not sure why so many are that willing to shut it down in its infancy.
Trading for Dame and closing our window is not that great deal. It's limiting us to win now and will cause everything to implode in 2 years. Not sure why so many are that willing to shut it down in its infancy.
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:11 pm to Wadey
quote:
Hopefully we see a normal injury year for our big guns meaning them playing 65-70 games each.
Sadly we can't ever seem to catch even a normal year. But if we ever did we obviously can make a deep run.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:19 pm to bonethug0180
Speaking of Dame trades involving us, this might be the most realistic I've seen:
Still don't think I like that, and it seems utterly pointless for us and Portland to swap picks in 2025, so just scratch that out. But the pieces at least makes some sense overall with where they are going.
Not sure I'd like Gafford as our starting center, as we are already weak overall at that spot.
We basically lose McCollum, JV, and a first (while also dumping Kira) for Dame and Gafford. Doesn't feel like we torpedo the team with this move, but we also are looking at a very bad spot with our big men, all things considered.
LINK
quote:
Pelicans receive: Damian Lillard, Daniel Gafford, 2025 first-round pick (via POR)
Blazers receive: James Harden, Jonas Valanciunas, 2024 first-round pick (via NOP), 2025 first-round pick (via NOP)
Sixers receive: CJ McCollum, Delon Wright, 2025 first-round pick (via MIL)
Wizards receive: Jusuf Nurkic, Kira Lewis Jr., 2024 second-round pick (via PHI), 2024 second-round pick (via POR)
Still don't think I like that, and it seems utterly pointless for us and Portland to swap picks in 2025, so just scratch that out. But the pieces at least makes some sense overall with where they are going.
Not sure I'd like Gafford as our starting center, as we are already weak overall at that spot.
We basically lose McCollum, JV, and a first (while also dumping Kira) for Dame and Gafford. Doesn't feel like we torpedo the team with this move, but we also are looking at a very bad spot with our big men, all things considered.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/4/23 at 7:22 pm
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:35 pm to htran90
quote:Right, everything has a risk.
It's not ridiculous if all things go perfectly
If we trade for Dame, we do shorten our window and maybe it's 2 years.
But we can't just assume a team that has done zero winning for 4 years will start winning soon. Meaning, we can have 1 or 2 more mediocre seasons coming up, and we'd then logically have to pivot and move 1 of them. 2 years from now, there's a chance we can be wishing we had that 2 year window we didn't want because it may all be over anyway.
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:41 pm to shel311
We haven't done zero winning. Even despite they myriad of injuries (and the SVG year) we have been at least competitive.
We literally just need health for at least 1 freaking year. xD
We literally just need health for at least 1 freaking year. xD
Posted on 7/4/23 at 7:50 pm to bonethug0180
quote:that’s highway robbery. Anyone who wouldn’t do this is an idiot
We basically lose McCollum, JV, and a first (while also dumping Kira) for Dame and Gafford. D
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