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Message
Our Best 3 Players Do Not Fit Together
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:39 pm
IMO this is the end all stat to show the big 3 does not work, net ratings:
- BI/ZIon/CJ ON - Negative Net Rating
- BI/Zion ON - Positive Net Rating
- BI/CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- Zion/CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- BI ON - Positive Net Rating
- CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- Zion ON - Positive Net Rating
- All 3 OFF - Positive Net Rating
- BI/ZIon/CJ ON - Negative Net Rating
- BI/Zion ON - Positive Net Rating
- BI/CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- Zion/CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- BI ON - Positive Net Rating
- CJ ON - Positive Net Rating
- Zion ON - Positive Net Rating
- All 3 OFF - Positive Net Rating
6
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:41 pm to shel311
Honestly firmly believe the best 3 not working cost us a top 6 seed. The fact Willie kept trodding this lineup out despite the issues just made it worse.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:45 pm to shel311
Its painfully obvious that they do not fit together, but they are all good players.
Its sort of a good problem to have in a way.
Its sort of a good problem to have in a way.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:46 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Its sort of a good problem to have in a way.
Its a good problem as long as you’re willing to find a solution. If you ignore it could potentially destroy the ceiling of your team.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 1:57 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Its sort of a good problem to have in a way.
It’s a good problem for a competent coach but not for Willie.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 2:11 pm to shel311
I’m not going to judge until we get a Center Willie will actually play that’s not Larry Nance/Cody Zeller/JRE.
If they make a move in the offseason for a legit long term solution at center, we’ll get a better idea of what to do with the CJ/BI/Zion problem. But making a big move at Center, which it seems like they want to, then it won’t leave us with many options as far as getting a different PG if we move on from CJ
If they make a move in the offseason for a legit long term solution at center, we’ll get a better idea of what to do with the CJ/BI/Zion problem. But making a big move at Center, which it seems like they want to, then it won’t leave us with many options as far as getting a different PG if we move on from CJ
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:25 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
If they make a move in the offseason for a legit long term solution at center, we’ll get a better idea of what to do with the CJ/BI/Zion problem.
It’ll be hard to do this without breaking up that core. Finding a long term solution isnt easy unless you think they will unload all their picks for a center or break up CJ/BI/Zion?
Posted on 4/15/24 at 4:53 pm to shel311
I'm still trying to figure out what this tells us. I know everyone's gut reaction is to move one of the big 3, the numbers seem pretty clear and it's a decent amount of data. But is a possible answer to stagger more? Clearly the bench guys are bringing something the big 3 together aren't.
This post was edited on 4/15/24 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 4/15/24 at 8:24 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
I'm still trying to figure out what this tells us. I know everyone's gut reaction is to move one of the big 3, the numbers seem pretty clear and it's a decent amount of data. But is a possible answer to stagger more?
I might be deluding myself, but a good portion of that rating was with an out of shape Zion. I really believe I started seeing BI and Zion playing better together the dozen or so games before BI got hurt. There was significantly more Point Zion being run and BI deferring more. I would really have liked to see more pick and roll involving the two, but Willie apparently thinks otherwise. I can’t argue that the majority of the evidence shows it’s not a great fit, but I saw both make a much greater commitment on the defensive end (which had never happened before) and commit to that side of the ball. Obviously I want the Pels to win, but I really want/need to see us in a 7 game playoff series with the “Big 3” together and healthy (relatively).
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:00 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
I might be deluding myself, but a good portion of that rating was with an out of shape Zion. I really believe I started seeing BI and Zion playing better together the dozen or so games before BI got hurt.
You are. Before BI got hurt he was deferring to Zion but his scoring average was also down. He was playing well in other aspects but a huge talking point was BI needs to up his scoring or this will affect us in the playoffs. BI and Zion just never were in sync the whole season- it honestly seemed like your turn/my turn offense.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:17 pm to shel311
Cj needs to be a 6th man 3rd guard.
Your starting pg needs to be someone like tyus Jones who can facilitate and shoot, but doesn't need the ball. Average defensively.
Your starting pg needs to be someone like tyus Jones who can facilitate and shoot, but doesn't need the ball. Average defensively.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:22 pm to htran90
CJ's a shooting guard playing the point. That's not his mentality nor is it the best way to use him. You've seen him these past few games, he's at his best when he's a bucket getter who isn't trying to take a backseat.
We've been playing CJ with Dyson with a lot of success. I don't think having a PG should any way affect CJ's role on the team.
We've been playing CJ with Dyson with a lot of success. I don't think having a PG should any way affect CJ's role on the team.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:29 pm to htran90
The only way CJ should be moved to the bench is if we are trading for another high volume 3 point shooting guard, otherwise our starting 5 will get even worse on offense.
CJ is the only high volume 3 point sniper we have in the starting 5, IMO to best build around Zion we need at least 2 of them to go along with Herb and a defensive rim running center.
CJ decided to change his shot profile to best fit the team, will BI be willing to do that also? We don’t need him taking 12 3’s a game, but if we can get him back to the 6-7 a game consistently like under Gentry that would open things up alot more in the starting 5.
CJ is the only high volume 3 point sniper we have in the starting 5, IMO to best build around Zion we need at least 2 of them to go along with Herb and a defensive rim running center.
CJ decided to change his shot profile to best fit the team, will BI be willing to do that also? We don’t need him taking 12 3’s a game, but if we can get him back to the 6-7 a game consistently like under Gentry that would open things up alot more in the starting 5.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:35 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
He was playing well in other aspects but a huge talking point was BI needs to up his scoring or this will affect us in the playoffs
Huge talking point by who?? Posters on here? The media?? Who fricking cares? I’m concerned with how they play together and I thought in the weeks prior to BI getting hurt it was the best I had seen it and certainly going in the right direction.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 9:50 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
I’m concerned with how they play together and I thought in the weeks prior to BI getting hurt it was the best I had seen it and certainly going in the right direction.
His scoring average was down to somewhere around 18 points per game. Yes all around game got better but his scoring average dipping that much was a big concern. You think its normal for a player who was averaging anywhere from 22-25 to dip down to 18 just to fit in?
Of course you don’t care about other people’s opinions as long as its yours but you constantly post on here like your opinion matters the most. Get off your high horse man. Why do you even post here if you don’t care about people’s opinions??
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:11 pm to htran90
quote:CJ needs to do exactly what he's been doing since BI went out, dominating thoroughly.
Cj needs to be a 6th man 3rd guard.
Your starting pg needs to be someone like tyus Jones who can facilitate and shoot, but doesn't need the ball. Average defensively.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:13 pm to Pels_Yaz
You referenced this “huge talking point”. Again I’m generally interested in who was generating this “huge talking point.” Can you fill me in??
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:24 pm to LSUgrad88
I mean huge talking point is referenced by people on this board, local media and I believe even some national media had noticed his scoring dip.
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for you to understand? You’re acting like him scoring significantly less is insignificant and Im just making this stuff up?
You do this on every post you reply to. You nitpick a phrase or word and try to make that the argument. And you completely ignore the actual issue. Its kind of your “schtick.”
For instance you haven’t addressed why you feel if BI’s scoring dip during this time is not a big issue for a guy who’s primarily known as a scorer?
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for you to understand? You’re acting like him scoring significantly less is insignificant and Im just making this stuff up?
You do this on every post you reply to. You nitpick a phrase or word and try to make that the argument. And you completely ignore the actual issue. Its kind of your “schtick.”
For instance you haven’t addressed why you feel if BI’s scoring dip during this time is not a big issue for a guy who’s primarily known as a scorer?
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:42 pm to shel311
I wouldn’t mind BI coming off the bench or when LJ takes a break. We don’t have anyone to cover him anyway so why not take the advantage when he is out
May be if our 2nd team was better than theirs we can keep it close.
Play JV early, let him pound the f out of AD, and see what happens.
Have to try something different.
May be if our 2nd team was better than theirs we can keep it close.
Play JV early, let him pound the f out of AD, and see what happens.
Have to try something different.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 10:45 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
For instance you haven’t addressed why you feel if BI’s scoring dip during this time is not a big issue for a guy who’s primarily known as a scorer?
I’m concerned about the Pelicans winning games and becoming a legit contender. I’ve constantly said for that to happen it will require Zion to become a legit star. And that almost surely means BI having to defer more and to adjust his game more. I saw that the last few weeks with BI deferring more and being much better on the defensive side. Whether that bothers posters on here, or the media, is irrelevant to me. If it doesn’t bother BI (which we’ll see) and it helps us win more games, I’m all for it. Does that help explain where I’m coming from?
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