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re: Original topic, I know, but the injuries to this franchise is beyond absurd. It's obscene
Posted on 11/27/24 at 1:09 pm to whatiknowsofar
Posted on 11/27/24 at 1:09 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Clotheslining someone isn't physical basketball. Because it isn't basketball
I agree. I simply point it out to illustrate that something like that, only resulted in a common foul during that period of time. Which isn’t a good thing in my opinion. Whereas now, even accidental contact to someone’s head results in a flagrant foul. That arguably isn’t a good thing either.
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Posted on 11/27/24 at 1:16 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:
C’mon. Just take the L on that post.
You poor thing.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 1:17 pm to Broski
quote:
Fact of the matter is, in the 80's and 90's the game was less physical, less technical and was played at a much slower pace.
less techincal I'll give you without a doubt.
much slower pace huh?
You do realize that there is this stat called PACE. It is an estimate of possessions per 48 minutes.
Do you know that not a single year from this century cracks the top 15 in PACE?
It is all 70's and 80's that are in the top 15. The slowest pace is the late 90's early 2000's.
I don't know what y'all think physical means. You had to actually work to get open back in the day, and fight for position. There were a lot more bricks going up and more rebounding, and guys actually blocked out back then. The OREB rate was a lot higher in the 80's and 90's.
The FTperFGA stat shows that todays game is a lot less physical b/c guys aren't getting fouled on shot attempts anywhere near where they were in the 80's & 90's. Kind of hard to be physical when the other team takes 50 threes a game.
I have no idea how any of you can think the game today is more physical than in the 80's. That doesn't mean the game today isn't physical, b/c basketball is a physical sport. but Gary Payton would foul out in the first quarter if he played today You can't be anywhere near as physical with guys like you could back then, unless of course your Brandon Ingram and defenders are allowed to do whatever the frick they want to you without a foul call.
The game is still physical, but guys have gotten smarter on how to play defenese without fouling. There were 25% (25/g compared to <20/g now) more fouls called in the 80's than today. Some of that is more 3 point shooting, some of it smarter defenders, and some of it simply being a more physical game back then and guys not giving a shite about using up their 6 fouls. Flopping isn't somethign that happened 30+ years ago. Now all you have to do if you're one of the chosen ones by the referees is drive to the goal and throw your head back the second you're touched and you're shooting free throws
Flopping is why the game isn't as physical anymore, b/c you can't be physical wtih floppers and shitty refs.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 1:25 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
I don't disagree that the game is played at a faster pace, but you can't check dudes in 2024 like you could even in the early 2000's.
Ever heard of the Malice in the Palace? That was reason behind a majority of the rules changes because David Stern felt the refs played a role in allowing the situation to get out of hand prior to Ron Artest going into the stands.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 3:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
much slower pace huh? You do realize that there is this stat called PACE. It is an estimate of possessions per 48 minutes. Do you know that not a single year from this century cracks the top 15 in PACE? It is all 70's and 80's that are in the top 15. The slowest pace is the late 90's early 2000's.
That you can’t see how flawed that argument is, is pretty wild to me.
The game today moves much faster than it did in the 80’s and 90’s, literally everyone that has played the game has said that.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 4:27 pm to Broski
quote:
The game today moves much faster than it did in the 80’s and 90’s, literally everyone that has played the game has said that.
So describe what “moves faster” means then, b/c the stats make it very clear that 80s teams had more possessions per game than today.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:09 pm to TeddyPadillac
It’s more that the game is wide open now. It’s not played almost entirely inside the three point line on offense as it used to be. Also, more long shots, more long rebounds, more transition opportunities (which again mean more three point attempts since guys now fan out to the three point line rather than fill lanes going to the basket). Less posting up, less interior scoring, it’s a more free flowing game. Much of that is good in my opinion, some of it not.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:10 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
I can post 5 gifs too. Your move.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:19 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Please. I beg you. Go watch two minutes of a game from the 80’s. Go to YouTube and pull up a full NBA Finals game from the 80’s and watch just a minute or two, and you’ll understand why there were more possessions.
So describe what “moves faster” means then, b/c the stats make it very clear that 80s teams had more possessions per game than today.
The game in the 80’s went like this:
Dribble up the court, make 1 pass to the center on the block, he makes a move and takes a shot. The other team gets the rebound and dribbles up the court and makes 1 pass to the wing, who then dribbles to the free throw line and takes a shot. The other team comes up the court and passes to the wing who passes to the center on the low block who makes a move and puts up a shot. Etc.
It was all one or two passes with hardly any time taken off the clock. There weren’t a ton of possessions because each team was running the floor and playing with full intensity. There were a ton of possessions because they didn’t work through an offensive set. It was one pass and shoot.
Seriously. Go back and watch a minute or two of any game you want. You’ll say wtf is this shite.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:25 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Dribble up the court, make 1 pass to the center on the block, he makes a move and takes a shot. The other team gets the rebound and dribbles up the court and makes 1 pass to the wing, who then dribbles to the free throw line and takes a shot. The other team comes up the court and passes to the wing who passes to the center on the low block who makes a move and puts up a shot. Etc.
compared to dribble up the court shoot a 3 with no passes, or dribble up the court, set a pick to shoot a three or penetrate to kick out for a 3?
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:34 pm to LSUgrad88
quote:That doesn't change the fact that those things didn't happen often, again, which is why we all remember and can point to the few times it did happen.
C’mon. Just take the L on that post. The fact that a clothesline done to a player in the 1980’s didn’t even result in an ejection, much less a suspension, should tell you all you need to know. If you’re being honest.
The nostalgia for those times makes people think that was the norm, but it was not.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:35 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:They got up shots quicker... They moved wayyyyyyyy slower.
much slower pace huh?
You do realize that there is this stat called PACE. It is an estimate of possessions per 48 minutes.
Do you know that not a single year from this century cracks the top 15 in PACE?
It is all 70's and 80's that are in the top 15. The slowest pace is the late 90's early 2000's.
Again, watch a mid 80s playoff game. They look like they're trying less on both sides than a 2024 preseason game. There's virtually zero movement.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:36 pm to Broski
quote:This is the most obvious statement in this thread.
The game today moves much faster than it did in the 80’s and 90’s, literally everyone that has played the game has said that
If we can't get a concensus agreement on this, woo boy...
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:37 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:The 10 dudes on the court
So describe what “moves faster” means then
quote:What does that have to do with who moves faster?
So describe what “moves faster” means then, b/c the stats make it very clear that 80s teams had more possessions per game than today
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:38 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:There ya go
can post 5 gifs too. Your move
If those 1st 5 gifs were proof the game was more physical... Now what?
Posted on 11/27/24 at 5:40 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:Teddy, when did you start watching basketball?
compared to dribble up the court shoot a 3 with no passes, or dribble up the court, set a pick to shoot a three or penetrate to kick out for a 3?
Are you really arguing off ball movement on offense has no extra movement today than it did 25-35 years ago?
This post was edited on 11/27/24 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 11/27/24 at 6:24 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:I don’t know what else to tell you if you’re unwilling to watch for yourself. Go watch a few minutes of an NBA Finals game from the 80’s and immediately after go watch a few minutes of an NBA Finals game from the past 10 years and if you don’t see a huge difference then I don’t know what to tell you.
compared to dribble up the court shoot a 3 with no passes, or dribble up the court, set a pick to shoot a three or penetrate to kick out for a 3?
Posted on 11/27/24 at 6:47 pm to shel311
quote:
The nostalgia for those times makes people think that was the norm, but it was not.
True, especially that mugging by McHale. But during that period hard fouls were not uncommon, and didn’t result in technicals or ejections. Now that it does, you see less of it. Not because guys were tougher or stronger back then, but the game was officiated differently. Players adjust.
Posted on 11/27/24 at 7:33 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
but they allow what would have been illegal defense back then.
Zone defense is essentially what it is. Most teams play a modified zone that makes scoring from the post or midrange seriously inefficient.
The only real answer is more movement, more frequent passes, looking for cut lanes, faster everything, running the floor constantly and shooting 35+ 3pt shots a game. The team who generates more possessions and plays just enough defense to hold the other team’s efficiency to slightly less that their own wins. It’s a statistical boat race. While I get that is literally the point of basketball, the current game is somewhat bland due little difference in style or team builds.
Before zone defense was allowed, there were several ways to be a successful NBA offense. Now there is just 1 way and if you can’t do it at a high level you get left behind.
So that results in more literal mileage placed on players. When you have a team with a medical staff that I can only assume is an afterthought, you see the injuries. It sucks a bag of dicks to be a Pelicans fan and has since the Hornets arrived save for what…4 seasons?
This post was edited on 11/27/24 at 7:35 pm
Posted on 11/27/24 at 8:34 pm to ShoeBang
quote:Offensive schemes are infinitely more intricate today than in the previous rules iteration for illegal defense.
Before zone defense was allowed, there were several ways to be a successful NBA offense. Now there is just 1 way and if you can’t do it at a high level you get left behind.
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