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re: Of the first 34 picks in the 2020 NBA Draft.....
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:30 am to Epic Cajun
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:30 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
I want to see what Gabriel brings to the table, too.
The thing is if Gabriel comes back and immediately gets minutes, it actually speaks worse to these concerns than anything.
Because if a guy that was an undrafted journeyman FA, who has missed most practices and all games, can immediately crack the stingy rotation of SVG but a healthy NAW and Kira can’t find minutes in a 3 guard rotation that has struggled and our second year top 10 pick is losing minutes to him, it will signal the reason they aren’t playing is almost certainly performance based, not the other things we hope.
0
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:39 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
My point is that everyone else is playing rookies but us.
They aren’t installing a new system, on a short offseason, with a coach hired 2 months ago
Ingram and Zo are only 23 (NAW is 22), Zion is 20. These guys development take precedent. They’re still getting acclimated. Bledsoe and Adams have been here one month. Hart has to play due to wing depth. It’s tough to draw minutes for the young guys right now. This is basically preseason games
They need to decide if Ball, Hart, Bledsoe are longer term pieces first and foremost. That’ll dictate what happens with NAW and Kira
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:39 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Are you gonna do this crap every game til we play him? Are you gonna make a thread every game we do play him talking about how he isn't a bust now? Calm the frick down bro and stop making these stupid arse threads about a rookie who's starters haven't played 4 games together. You do sound like a whiny bitch, no need to defend yourself.
The only person that has posted in this thread so far that appears in any way triggered and sounding like a whiny bitch has been you friendo
Here’s an honest suggestion, since this sort of unhinged tone policing seems to be a recurring theme in threads that attempt some level of critical analysis, instead of getting worked up and triggered over threads that aren’t just pumping sunshine, just don’t post in them?
This board is incredibly casual with just allowing people to post new threads based on whatever thought fart comes out of their brain, for good and bad, so just make some threads about topics you would actually enjoy talking about instead of making yourself miserable in threads you clearly don’t want to participate in. Leave those of us wanting to have this conversation to have it.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 11:41 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:45 am to GynoSandberg
quote:In fairness though, getting an idea of what you have with NAW and Kira would and should help dictate what to do with those other 3 guys, so ideally you have some info on NAW/Kira to influence those decisions.
They need to decide if Ball, Hart, Bledsoe are longer term pieces first and foremost. That’ll dictate what happens with NAW and Kira
We have time to get there, but for the sake of discussion, I'd hate to have to make decisions on those 3 guys and still have no idea what we have in the young guys.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:56 am to shel311
Yep, if the idea is to see whether Bledsoe and Lonzo are in our future plans it would be pretty silly to just forgo getting any in-game data on how our draft picks look on the court and in situations with one or the other.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 11:57 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Are you gonna do this crap every game til we play him?
no.
quote:
Are you gonna make a thread every game we do play him talking about how he isn't a bust now?
no.
The point i'm trying to make is showing all of you what literally every other team in the league does with rookies, and how minutes played as a rookie as a top 20 pick says about that player's future.
we can revisit all of this 20 games into the season.
quote:
Calm the frick down bro and stop making these stupid arse threads about a rookie who's starters haven't played 4 games together. You do sound like a whiny bitch, no need to defend yourself.
eat a cock...bro. I've literally started one thread on this board in all of 2020, this one.
I get it, you don't like the stats i presented. I can't change the stats. Interpret them how you want.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:00 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
They aren’t installing a new system, on a short offseason, with a coach hired 2 months ago
we aren't the only team that hired a new coach.
quote:
They need to decide if Ball, Hart, Bledsoe are longer term pieces first and foremost. That’ll dictate what happens with NAW and Kira
This right here is probably the best reasoning i've seen. But i would counter it with, what if NAW or Kira appear to be just as good or a better fit, making it even more clear that maybe you should be looking to move someone before the deadline.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:04 pm to TeddyPadillac
I’d just ignore him, you’ve offered up one of the more substantive OP’s for starting a discussion in some time and for the most part the conversation it has generated has been more interesting to read and engage in than most of the hot take nonsense, throwaway doom posts, or sunshine pumping we get in-between news stories breaking about the team.
This is actually a thread I’d like to see again in 20 games and maybe again a few times through the season because it is interesting to put into context our situation with how other teams are incorporating their rookies and test whether our assumptions today are true 20 games from now or not.
Because for instance, a lot is being made that this is probably a short term trend to establish the right court identity, and the overall trend is explained by our supposed unique circumstance, that we should expect NAW and Kira to get minutes 20-30 games from now, but what if they don’t? My guess is people will attempt to move goal posts if they are still racking up DNP’s, but if we are winning games and things look healthy, I think 20 games would make it more difficult to explain the choice as anything but performance related....If they are playing and playing well I think we can assume those assumptions were correct and can rest our heads a bit easier.
This is actually a thread I’d like to see again in 20 games and maybe again a few times through the season because it is interesting to put into context our situation with how other teams are incorporating their rookies and test whether our assumptions today are true 20 games from now or not.
Because for instance, a lot is being made that this is probably a short term trend to establish the right court identity, and the overall trend is explained by our supposed unique circumstance, that we should expect NAW and Kira to get minutes 20-30 games from now, but what if they don’t? My guess is people will attempt to move goal posts if they are still racking up DNP’s, but if we are winning games and things look healthy, I think 20 games would make it more difficult to explain the choice as anything but performance related....If they are playing and playing well I think we can assume those assumptions were correct and can rest our heads a bit easier.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:14 pm to Bronc
Its weird looking back over the numbers. I pushed hard for Hart to be at SG and even start there. They just totally don't see him as that. He is our back up SF/PF. He is playing a ton of minutes and putting up solid numbers. So more power to him. I just never saw him as that, so maybe I was way off. But if that is what he is, I don't know if he would garner a big contract somewhere else or here. Is it going to kill his value?
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:18 pm to TeddyPadillac
Didn't we start something like 1-7 last year and so far this year are 2-1?
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:26 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Its weird looking back over the numbers. I pushed hard for Hart to be at SG and even start there. They just totally don't see him as that. He is our back up SF/PF.
I think SVG kind of hinted at this having to happen(almost passive aggressively) saying we have quite a lot of bigs and point guards, but we only really have one true SG and Hart is sort of our 2/3 hybrid and he’ll be asked to do a lot off the bench and match up against wings. Feels very much like a E’waun Moore situation. Put a Reddish or Jae Crowder on this team and I think Hart’s 70/25 split between Sf and Sg would be flipped. But as has been a problem for almost as long as I can remember, we just don’t have good SF depth.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:27 pm to Bronc
I'd also be cool seeing this thread in 20 or so games. This is the 2nd thread he's started in 4 games about Kira Lewis not playing. 3 games into the season with almost an entire new roster. So yeah I stand with my words.
My apologies you didn't start the first thread just bitched the whole time about how Kira is a bust if he doesn't play every game.
My apologies you didn't start the first thread just bitched the whole time about how Kira is a bust if he doesn't play every game.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:36 pm to Dantheman504
Maybe I am in the minority, but I am loving the short bench. SVG knows he has 7 NBA ready players on the roster, and then a handful of unknowns, including Kira. He's trying to install a new system and figure out what works. Makes sense to get the top half of the roster acclimated initially, maybe over the first 10 games or so, and get some damn wins/confidence. Nothing worse that starting off 2-8(again) and then playing behind the 8ball for the rest of the season.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:40 pm to Solo
Also our issues are clearly coming from backup bigs. Our backcourt has looked well the first few games without even NAW playing much. So why would it makes sense to throw Lewis in the mix? If we add any more people to the rotation it should be to help the bigs. If people follow our team they would see this shite instead of sit here and worry about our draft pick because past stats say so.
"we are 2-1, our guards are playing great and our bugs suck arse, we have to play the rookie PG now or all else is lost"
"we are 2-1, our guards are playing great and our bugs suck arse, we have to play the rookie PG now or all else is lost"
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:45 pm to Dantheman504
I just don’t think the site is so bandwidth starved that people need to get themselves bent out of shape tone policing what threads get started, and what opinions/concerns people can express. I think different fans have different things they look at and I think asking those questions in the context he has(prefacing he isn’t drawing any firm conclusions yet) is entirely valid and at least fills the dead space with something to talk about in between games and breaking news.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:46 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
This is the 2nd thread he's started in 4 games about Kira Lewis not playing
Nice reading comprehension. I've started one thread in all of 2020, this one, so no, it's not the 2nd thread i've started about this.
Someone else started a thread about if Kira would get minutes or play in the G-League, and i wanted to make sure everyone understood the precedence of rookies picked in the top 13 over the last few years, and that he's not playing in the fricking G-League this year, and that isn't an expectation anyone should ever have with a top 13 pick. And i said it time and time again in that thread that i don't think it will be that big of a deal if he doesn't play in the first few games, but he should be getting regular minutes by the 20-30 game mark, and if he isn't, that's a big concern to me and should be to everyone.
all i've gotten from most are excuses, as if we are the only team in the league with new players, or a new coach. Last year was the first year we've had rookies worth a shite since AD/Rivers basically. We had 1 first round draft pick in 6 years, Buddy, and we couldn't' even hold onto him for a full season.
Because of that, i can understand how many of you are having a hard time understanding how most teams handle rookies compared to what we did last year, and possibly will do this year.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:49 pm to shel311
quote:
We have time to get there, but for the sake of discussion, I'd hate to have to make decisions on those 3 guys and still have no idea what we have in the young guys.
I merely talking about the first handful of games. Those guys will eventually get run as the current distribution is not sustainable
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:56 pm to Bronc
We are different than any other team in the league. Its just weird to see the context of the conversation based off EVERY other team or past pick/ stats. Our team is different, new, and has a lot to figure out. If we had issues at PG/ SG then ok. If we needed help at that position then ok. If we aren't letting our starters gell together then ok. But our PG/ SG rotation has been playing well and our big issues are at backup 3,4, and 5. So why should I give a frick about what is going on with 29 other teams and their draft picks or base that for my argument?
I really like Kira Lewis and I would also really like to see him play. I'd also really like to see us win and our starters get going. But playing him doesn't help our current roster issues. So saying every other team is playing their guys while we are struggling at other positions and building chemistry is a pretty shitty argument honestly.
I really like Kira Lewis and I would also really like to see him play. I'd also really like to see us win and our starters get going. But playing him doesn't help our current roster issues. So saying every other team is playing their guys while we are struggling at other positions and building chemistry is a pretty shitty argument honestly.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:57 pm to Dantheman504
quote:
Also our issues are clearly coming from backup bigs. Our backcourt has looked well the first few games without even NAW playing much. So why would it makes sense to throw Lewis in the mix? If we add any more people to the rotation it should be to help the bigs. If people follow our team they would see this shite instead of sit here and worry about our draft pick because past stats say so.
I agree. I want to see more of Zion at the 5, with Hart/BI at the 4. But that would mean we would have to play more guards. Hayes and Melli have shown that they can't help spread the floor the same way Adams does when playing with Zion. I think this small ball 4/5 guy is who we should be targeting with for a trade, or who we should have been looking for with a 2nd round pick to try out.
We signed Magnay to a two way deal, and maybe it's time to see what he can do on our frontcourt, b/c Hayes and Melli don't look good at all.
quote:
"we are 2-1, our guards are playing great and our bugs suck arse, we have to play the rookie PG now or all else is lost"
see, this is what you did in the other thread. You act like i'm acting like the sky is falling b/c he hasn't played yet. It is not at all what i said then, or now.
I"ll say it again for you. It would not surprise me if Kira doesn't get much run in the first 20 or so games, but i can't find any good reason why he wouldn't be playing some regular minutes by then unless he's simply not that good.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 12:58 pm to TeddyPadillac
My view is that:
1) SVG is trying to establish an identity of defensive dominance -- a tough, gritty, physical team. We were so bad defensively last year, and he wants our guys to believe that we are a good defensive team (which we actually seem to be).
That probably wasn't going to happen playing NAW and Lewis a lot. While the little we saw of NAW in the preseason looked better than last year, NAW definitely played defense last year like a rookie -- he wasn't good. And the fact that he actually seems to have lost weight isn't going to help with the physical aspect either. When he plays, Lewis is also going to play defense like a rookie.
2) As part of developing the tough, gritty team that he wants us to be, our guys need to be in fantastic shape. Since we play games every other day, the only way to improve the physical conditioning of our guys (especially Zion) is to play them long minutes, to really get them tired every game.
So, yeah, I think that SVG likely has good reasons for what he's doing -- it's part of developing a championship culture. But will I be concerned if this situation is the same in 2-3 weeks? Yeah. NAW and Lewis can't develop in practice this year, because the team plays games every other day and basically only has light practices on the other days. The only way that NAW/Lewis are going to develop is on the floor.
1) SVG is trying to establish an identity of defensive dominance -- a tough, gritty, physical team. We were so bad defensively last year, and he wants our guys to believe that we are a good defensive team (which we actually seem to be).
That probably wasn't going to happen playing NAW and Lewis a lot. While the little we saw of NAW in the preseason looked better than last year, NAW definitely played defense last year like a rookie -- he wasn't good. And the fact that he actually seems to have lost weight isn't going to help with the physical aspect either. When he plays, Lewis is also going to play defense like a rookie.
2) As part of developing the tough, gritty team that he wants us to be, our guys need to be in fantastic shape. Since we play games every other day, the only way to improve the physical conditioning of our guys (especially Zion) is to play them long minutes, to really get them tired every game.
So, yeah, I think that SVG likely has good reasons for what he's doing -- it's part of developing a championship culture. But will I be concerned if this situation is the same in 2-3 weeks? Yeah. NAW and Lewis can't develop in practice this year, because the team plays games every other day and basically only has light practices on the other days. The only way that NAW/Lewis are going to develop is on the floor.
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