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Of the first 34 picks in the 2020 NBA Draft.....
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:31 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:31 am
Only 7 of them haven't played yet in the first 3 games. a handful of teams have only played 2 games. OKC and Rockets only played 1.
1 of those 7 is hurt, and the other is a draft and stash, so you can really just say 5 of the first 34 picks haven't played yet.
Okognwu is the highest pick that hasn't played yet, although he is hurt and will without a doubt play when he's ready.
Next would be KIRA LEWIS JR as the highest pick that hasn't played yet. I'll point out that 73 other rookies played more minutes than him in the preseason. Had Bledsoe and Reddick not been out for the first preseason game, that number would be higher b/c i bet you Kira would not have played at all in that game if they were there.
Next is Isiah Stewart, the 16th pick, and he'll play tonight for the Pistons b/c Griffin is out. He played 5-7 minutes in each of the 4 preseason games.
Next 4 are NNaji (Denver project big), Bolmaro (still in Spain), RJ Hampton (another Denver project), picks in the early 20's, and 33rd pick Vernon Carey Jr.
Both Denver players played over 10 minutes in each preseason game, except the one RJ was sick for and didn't play. Vernon Carey played in 2 of the 4 preseason games for the Hornets, and less minutes than Kira did.
The Bucks have played the 45th pick in 2 of their 3 games, 8 minutes each, and the 60th pick in all 3 of their games. Both have played more than Torrey Craig, who plays a similar position to both of them.
The Nets have played the 57th pick in 2 of their 3 games.
Tyrell Terry, 31st pick, has played in 2 of the Mavs 3 games, and he's behind Luka and Burke, and Josh Green, 18th pick, has played in all 3, and there's 4 other wing players ahead of him. 6 players in the rotation at the 1,2 and 3 and the Mavs still found time to give their two rookies minutes.
Meanwhile we've got just 5 guys playing all the minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 and can't find minutes for NAW or Kira.
Here's the teams that haven't played at least 12 guys so far:
Pistons, Magic(3 key injuries), Grizzlies (bunch of injuries) have all played 11 guys.
Spurs and OKC(played 1 game, played 10 guys double digit minutes in it) 10
Rockets (Covid Stupidness) 9
All have played rookies.
Pelicans have played 10. We have no Covid or injury reasons we haven't played more guys. We have 6 guys averaging 29+ mpg. No one else has more than 4 doing that, Houston not included due to stupidness. It's like we are already into playoff rotations.
A new coach isn't an excuse for this. A shortened preseason isn't an excuse either, as everyone experienced it. A bunch of new players in a new system isn't an excuse for this either, so try better if you're going to make excuses.
All that being said, it's just 3 games, no need to get my panties in a wad. I have enjoyed the season thus far and love the way we are playing and getting better, especially defensively.
Maybe Stan and Griff have a plan of when to start letting NAW and Kira play, but as i said before, if they aren't getting minutes by about game 20-30, then i will be irritated, or concerned that they just simply aren't good enough, b/c as i've pointed out with just about every team in the league, they all find ways to see what their rookies can do. Why are we the exception?
and oh yeah, there are 5 undrafted guys that are on two-way deals that have made their NBA debut before Kira has, making the total rookies played thus far in the league to 48 guys that have officially made their nba debut before Kira Lewis.
1 of those 7 is hurt, and the other is a draft and stash, so you can really just say 5 of the first 34 picks haven't played yet.
Okognwu is the highest pick that hasn't played yet, although he is hurt and will without a doubt play when he's ready.
Next would be KIRA LEWIS JR as the highest pick that hasn't played yet. I'll point out that 73 other rookies played more minutes than him in the preseason. Had Bledsoe and Reddick not been out for the first preseason game, that number would be higher b/c i bet you Kira would not have played at all in that game if they were there.
Next is Isiah Stewart, the 16th pick, and he'll play tonight for the Pistons b/c Griffin is out. He played 5-7 minutes in each of the 4 preseason games.
Next 4 are NNaji (Denver project big), Bolmaro (still in Spain), RJ Hampton (another Denver project), picks in the early 20's, and 33rd pick Vernon Carey Jr.
Both Denver players played over 10 minutes in each preseason game, except the one RJ was sick for and didn't play. Vernon Carey played in 2 of the 4 preseason games for the Hornets, and less minutes than Kira did.
The Bucks have played the 45th pick in 2 of their 3 games, 8 minutes each, and the 60th pick in all 3 of their games. Both have played more than Torrey Craig, who plays a similar position to both of them.
The Nets have played the 57th pick in 2 of their 3 games.
Tyrell Terry, 31st pick, has played in 2 of the Mavs 3 games, and he's behind Luka and Burke, and Josh Green, 18th pick, has played in all 3, and there's 4 other wing players ahead of him. 6 players in the rotation at the 1,2 and 3 and the Mavs still found time to give their two rookies minutes.
Meanwhile we've got just 5 guys playing all the minutes at the 1, 2 and 3 and can't find minutes for NAW or Kira.
Here's the teams that haven't played at least 12 guys so far:
Pistons, Magic(3 key injuries), Grizzlies (bunch of injuries) have all played 11 guys.
Spurs and OKC(played 1 game, played 10 guys double digit minutes in it) 10
Rockets (Covid Stupidness) 9
All have played rookies.
Pelicans have played 10. We have no Covid or injury reasons we haven't played more guys. We have 6 guys averaging 29+ mpg. No one else has more than 4 doing that, Houston not included due to stupidness. It's like we are already into playoff rotations.
A new coach isn't an excuse for this. A shortened preseason isn't an excuse either, as everyone experienced it. A bunch of new players in a new system isn't an excuse for this either, so try better if you're going to make excuses.
All that being said, it's just 3 games, no need to get my panties in a wad. I have enjoyed the season thus far and love the way we are playing and getting better, especially defensively.
Maybe Stan and Griff have a plan of when to start letting NAW and Kira play, but as i said before, if they aren't getting minutes by about game 20-30, then i will be irritated, or concerned that they just simply aren't good enough, b/c as i've pointed out with just about every team in the league, they all find ways to see what their rookies can do. Why are we the exception?
and oh yeah, there are 5 undrafted guys that are on two-way deals that have made their NBA debut before Kira has, making the total rookies played thus far in the league to 48 guys that have officially made their nba debut before Kira Lewis.
5
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:35 am to TeddyPadillac
I think for the Pelicans, SVG is trying to get his top rotational guys to get the communication and chemistry down before inserting NAW and KIRA.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:35 am to TeddyPadillac
He will play.
It is pretty obvious that SVG is keeping the lineup super tight with basically an 8 or maybe 9 man rotation for now.
He is trying to get a feel for the guys that matter most and how they play together, and honestly, he probably wants them to get some wins under their belt.
He is going to start tinkering with different players like Kira, Wenyen, and NAW I think soon. He doesn't have a choice. He cannot play guys the amount of minutes that he is throughout an entire season.
It is pretty obvious that SVG is keeping the lineup super tight with basically an 8 or maybe 9 man rotation for now.
He is trying to get a feel for the guys that matter most and how they play together, and honestly, he probably wants them to get some wins under their belt.
He is going to start tinkering with different players like Kira, Wenyen, and NAW I think soon. He doesn't have a choice. He cannot play guys the amount of minutes that he is throughout an entire season.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:39 am to TeddyPadillac
Well done. That is a ton of research and some solid breakdown..
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:44 am to Fun Bunch
I think the short bench is a good idea right now.
It's brand new season and he's trying to figure out rotations, plus everyone technically has fresh legs so we don't need to cap minutes. With the shortened offseason it's almost impossible to know how these guys are going to play together.
We've also played against 2 really good teams (TOR and MIA), then a divisional opponent (SA). We haven't had the luxury to frick around yet since everyone is so new.
It's brand new season and he's trying to figure out rotations, plus everyone technically has fresh legs so we don't need to cap minutes. With the shortened offseason it's almost impossible to know how these guys are going to play together.
We've also played against 2 really good teams (TOR and MIA), then a divisional opponent (SA). We haven't had the luxury to frick around yet since everyone is so new.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:48 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
It is pretty obvious that SVG is keeping the lineup super tight with basically an 8 or maybe 9 man rotation for now.
He is trying to get a feel for the guys that matter most and how they play together, and honestly, he probably wants them to get some wins under their belt.
I get this, but as i said, why are we the exception? Why are we the only team needing to do this? How is everyone else finding minutes for rookies? and yes i know it's just 3 games.
quote:
He is going to start tinkering with different players like Kira, Wenyen, and NAW I think soon. He doesn't have a choice. He cannot play guys the amount of minutes that he is throughout an entire season.
I would agree. I think Wenyen definitely needs to get some minutes too. Adams and Zion are playing really well together. Melli and Jaxson do not play well with Zion. If Melli could hit an open 3, he'd be just fine, but his shot has been ridiculously inconsistent in his time in the NBA.
As i said, i am assuming SVG has a plan, and they will start playing soon.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:49 am to Billy Mays
quote:
We've also played against 2 really good teams (TOR and MIA), then a divisional opponent (SA). We haven't had the luxury to frick around yet since everyone is so new.
Literally everyone else has found time to frick around.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:53 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I get this, but as i said, why are we the exception?
Why is being an exception a bad thing? Maybe he just has a different philosophy coming from an unprecedented offseason than other teams. Maybe he thinks as a new coach with a lot of younger players in a totally new system, not only they need a shortened rotation for now but HE needs one. Everyone has predicted a ton of sloppiness to start the season and that has been true league wise. Maybe he thinks it will expedite the process of going from sloppy to "figuring it out".
quote:
Why are we the only team needing to do this?
Who says we NEED to do it? Maybe he just wants to.
Or, as anyone that was paying attention should have known, our depth is a problem and will be all year. It is what it is. Next summer is going to have to be one where we get better depth wise.
Its early, this thread is pretty ridiculous for 3 games in. 30 games in and its the same thing and it will be a bit more warranted imo.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:58 am to Fun Bunch
quote:I think it's this. We don't have a huge margin for error and he's trying to win as many games as possible. If Lewis, NAW, and Hayes were averaging 15 minutes per game each and we were 0-3 people would be melting down.
he probably wants them to get some wins under their belt.
quote:Players can't play 35 minutes per game?
He cannot play guys the amount of minutes that he is throughout an entire season.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 9:58 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Literally everyone else has found time to frick around.
It's pretty obvious SVG is trying to establish something early on this season and set up a winning mindset. Last night I'm sure he would have liked to play more players, but giving up a quick 21-3 run and the lead probably put us off schedule.
Obviously we are going to frick around eventually bc playing 8 is not sustainable.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 10:00 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:00 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:You know you started a good thread when brmark is giving you props
TeddyPadillac
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:05 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Or, as anyone that was paying attention should have known, our depth is a problem and will be all year. It is what it is. Next summer is going to have to be one where we get better depth wise.
That is insane to say when we had strong cap space, traded one starter for 3, another starter for 2 starters, have had two top ten picks, one the first overall, followed by two top 20 picks and around a million second rounders. To then be talking about we will have to wait to find quality depth until next offseason.
That is a signal you have screwed shite up down roster.
I personally hope the reason we are doing what we are doing is because we want to establish the core identity before working in other guys, at the same time, if we are that concerned about NAW and Kira screwing that up, thus needing to hold them out completely to start the season, that in itself is worrying.
Trajan’s core competency was supposed to be as a scouting savant, a guy that was capable of finding talent the rest of the league missed. So far I honestly can’t tell what he does well? You would think with that resume we would have some unheralded FA signings and a promising two-way player busting up the depth chart and generating buzz, Melli would have been burning up defenses with his shooting, at least one of our draft picks not named Sion to be generating “steal of the draft” buzz. We all told ourselves these guys were the real deal and kept talking how we’d be overflowing with talent, but here we are a year later praying Wenyen Gabriel can be our savior for a bench that is anchored by a top 10 draft pick garnering a net rating of -41
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 10:12 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:05 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Players can't play 35 minutes per game?
You can but you probably don't want them averaging 38ish if you can avoid it. You can't play an 8 man rotation all year. That's playoff basketball.
Guys are going to need to get worked on. Ideally you want at least a 10 man rotation with an 11th and 12th guy getting worked in here and there as well.
But for now I totally understand SVGs strategy here to start the season.
He wants the guys that MATTER to play big minutes together and work through the growing pains. Once those guys have the system down a bit he will start working in others to get experience, minutes, and tinker. Others are doing that now, SVG is deciding to do it later.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:07 am to Bronc
I feel like when Kira eventually gets some run the talent will be undeniable and he will be in the regular rotation
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:07 am to Bronc
quote:
That is insane to say when we had strong cap space, traded one starter for 3, another starter for 2 starters, have had two top ten picks, one the first overall, followed by two top 20 picks and around a million second rounders. To then be talking about we will have to wait to find quality depth until next offseason.
K neat.
But that is the case. Not every move is going to be great, and we are dealing with some unprecedented circumstances. We are in year 2 (really 1.5 to be honest).
Let's talk in year 4.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:08 am to TeddyPadillac
Just guessing that it's SVG trying to learn his guys. I would say you need to feel comfortable with your team in order to "frick around". Of all the 9 new coaches, I'd say he may have the biggest question marks, besides Silas in Houston.
Everyone else either knows that they're dealing with a contender or playoff team(Lue, Nash, Rivers, Bjorkgren) or that there are no/low expectations(Thibodeau, Donovan, and Daigneault).
It may also be that he feels that he doesn't have time to experiment to start the season. I agree with your earlier statement, that if we're still in 8-9 man rotations 20-30 games in, it will make me question NAW and Kira.
Everyone else either knows that they're dealing with a contender or playoff team(Lue, Nash, Rivers, Bjorkgren) or that there are no/low expectations(Thibodeau, Donovan, and Daigneault).
It may also be that he feels that he doesn't have time to experiment to start the season. I agree with your earlier statement, that if we're still in 8-9 man rotations 20-30 games in, it will make me question NAW and Kira.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:14 am to Fleur de Diable
SVG has a long history of making rookies earn playing time through practice. JJ talked about how SVG wouldn't put him games until he improved on certain things he was doing wrong in practice. Uncle Al would be playing Kira 20 minutes a game now.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:15 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
our depth is a problem and will be all year.
Well of course it is when 3 of your 4 first round picks from the last two years are completely useless and you run off solid young players to bring in Nico fricking Melli.
This team should have Deandre Hunter and Christian Wood coming off the bench. But instead it has Jax and Melli.
Depth is a self imposed problem brought on by terrible talent evaluation and roster management.
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:19 am to saints5021
quote:Right this is also part of it. SVG isn't going to play players just because of their draft position. If he doesn't feel like he can trust them, because he sees what he sees in practice, then chances are that he's not going to play them. Especially when we aren't winning any of these games very comfortably. As I stated earlier, if these young guys were getting minutes, and we were 0-3 we would have another contingent of people melting about how terrible we are.
SVG has a long history of making rookies earn playing time through practice. JJ talked about how SVG wouldn't put him games until he improved on certain things he was doing wrong in practice.
The team is riding a fine line between prepping for the future (draft picks, developmental players), and attempting to win currently. There aren't that many teams in a similar position (talent to win currently, and assets to grow in the future).
ETA: I think another thing is that SVG doesn't really know what he has in this team. If he was certain that this team was a playoff team and that we would figure it out over the course of a season, he would probably be more inclined to play younger players who are going to make mistakes. But, we don't really have that benefit. We're a borderline playoff team, so getting every win possible is important (especially when attempting to development a winning "culture", which is what I think the point of the playoff push is).
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 10:23 am
Posted on 12/28/20 at 10:22 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
But that is the case. Not every move is going to be great, and we are dealing with some unprecedented circumstances. We are in year 2 (really 1.5 to be honest).
If you can’t handle this sort of critical conversation than maybe step aside and let those willing to have the conversation have the room? Nothing forced you to post in this thread.
I’m not really in the game of constant excuses. If that’s your thing this probably isn’t the thread for you since this one seems to be intentionally made to take an objective and critical look at some concerning trends, not designed to be the David Griffin defense force hour.
If we come out of our first two years having 4 top 20 picks and only Zion is able to be a meaningful contributor, that is a huge problem and red flag for this team’s scouting and talent evaluation department.
And so far the trends are discouraging and as your responses and handwaving is attesting to, requires numerous rationalizations and dismissals to excuse away. Which I think we all hope end up being the case, but so far the fact is we seem to have not drafted or acquired any developmental talent outside of Zion and the Lakers trade that we feel comfortable giving meaningful minutes besides Hayes, who many suspect we are simply forced to because a journeyman is hurt, who in that capacity right now is looking outright abysmal.
This post was edited on 12/28/20 at 10:25 am
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