re: Of the first 34 picks in the 2020 NBA Draft.....

SVG is installing new systems AND trying to get our guys into peak conditioning as quick as possible. Only way is minutes.

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Its early, this thread is pretty ridiculous for 3 games in. 30 games in and its the same thing and it will be a bit more warranted imo.

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i know it's a bit ridiculous 3 games in. But you do realize that had Bledsoe/Redick been available in preseason game #1, he wouldn't have played 1 minute thus far. He'd be the only rookie to not play in the preseason other than the ones that are hurt.

This thread was more of something i was going to keep up for the season to see how our rookie has compared to others.
I've already shared numbers on how guys have fared in their nba career based on their minutes played as rookies. Yes some guys get minutes on bad teams and end up being busts, but there aren't guys that don't play as rookies that end up being anything better than minimum contracts at best after their rookie contract. If you can't play in at least 30 games, averaging 10-15 minutes a game, you're probably not that good and you never will be. I think that's very telling, and it's something i want to follow this season with Kira.

Of the top 21 picks last year, only 3 players played less mpg than Jaxson and NAW. Romeo Langford, Goga, and Samanic. Samanic sucks. Langford probably does too. Goga played in 54 games last year, but hasn't played yet b/c he hurt his ankle, but the Pacers expect him to be part of the rotation this year. Langford is out for months with wrist surgery. Samanic hasn't played yet, b/c he sucks.
Jaxson played 16mpg. The next closest to him in the top 13 was Cam Johnson at 22mpg. NAW averaged 12.4. Everyone in the top 21 but those i just mentioned (Jaxson/NAW/Goga/Langford/Samanic) played at least 19mpg, and played in at least half the games (except Zion).

I don’t think the minutes balance is the problem, in the aggregate it’s fine, the concern is why we are having to balance the minutes this way?

Why only an 8 man rotation?

Maybe it is because SVG is an outlier in his philosophy, maybe it has to do with setting a culture on the court, maybe it is simply our developmental guys aren’t ready.

But in any case it raises a number of questions. Namely, why? Why does SVG feel no one outside 7-8 guys can play a role in establishing the court culture and contribute to winning games right now? Certain people choose to interpret every one of these trends in the most positive light possible, and tbf that might be the case, I certainly wouldn’t dismiss it. but just as plausible are the other obvious, less flowery answers, which is simply we don’t really have any playable guys beyond the first 7-8 players on the roster(and arguably Hayes isn’t playable but we are forced to) and it’s up in the air if and when anyone else will be able to do so. Which includes players from two drafts and several FA acquisitions.

It's kind of hard to argue with what SVG is doing based on the results. It's only been 3 games and we are melting hard because we are looking for something to complain about. There's too many games left to play and opportunities will be there.

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But in any case it raises a number of questions. Namely, why? Why does SVG feel no one outside 7-8 guys can play a role in establishing the court culture and contribute to winning games right now? Certain people choose to interpret every one of these trends in the most positive light possible, and tbf that might be the case, I certainly wouldn’t dismiss it. but just as plausible are the other obvious, less flowery answers, which is simply we don’t really have any playable guys beyond the first 7-8 players on the roster(and arguably Hayes isn’t playable but we are forced to) and it’s up in the air if and when anyone else will be able to do so. Which includes players from two drafts and several FA acquisitions.

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My theory, as stated earlier in the thread is that we are trying to win, and feel like having our best players on the court as many minutes as possible is the best way to do that. We don't feel like we have the luxury of buying minutes with the young guys because our margins are thin, and in a sense Zion, Lonzo, and BI are still developing. IMO, it would be kinda hard to win when you have a 10 man rotation and 6 of those players are developmental. Right or wrong (jury is still out on this), winning right now is very important to the franchise.

My point is that everyone else is playing rookies but us.
Maybe they do suck. The fact that our two rookies last year played so little compared to the other similar rookies is telling, don't you think?

It's not just this year, which is way too early to be bitching about this with Kira.
I am more than aware of how much the nba draft is a crapshoot, and maybe we have crap bullets in our gun. I think it's too early to tell on NAW and Jaxson, and obviously way to early for Kira, but do the numbers i just told you not concern you about Jaxson and NAW?

NAW seems to be a pretty good defender, and you've got to love the energy and heart he plays with, and he's been knocking down open 3's, so i don't understand why he isn't getting some run right now. We have a 3 man rotation at the 1 and 2. How is it possible he can't get minutes there?

and to be clear, i think NAW can be a good NBA player, and has a better chance at sticking around than Jaxson does. Hayes is obviously much more talented, and i without a doubt would not give up on him, but the things that bother me the most with him isn't physical tools, it's mental tools and his mentality. He seems like he needs more time in the film room and practice, where as NAW needs to spend more time actually playing.

I'm not melting, and i'm not being negative. I'm simply presenting statistical facts.

I am still excited about the season and this team, and i still believe in all 3 of those guys being contributors to this team this year.

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Of the top 21 picks last year, only 3 players played less mpg than Jaxson and NAW. Romeo Langford, Goga, and Samanic. Samanic sucks. Langford probably does too. Goga played in 54 games last year, but hasn't played yet b/c he hurt his ankle, but the Pacers expect him to be part of the rotation this year. Langford is out for months with wrist surgery. Samanic hasn't played yet, b/c he sucks.
Jaxson played 16mpg. The next closest to him in the top 13 was Cam Johnson at 22mpg. NAW averaged 12.4. Everyone in the top 21 but those i just mentioned (Jaxson/NAW/Goga/Langford/Samanic) played at least 19mpg, and played in at least half the games (except Zion).

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This is interesting and more good research, because it sort of puts into question the idea that this is simply a coaching philosophy issue unique to SVG, since these trends are holding through two regimes and two seasons.

I think the most generous rationale I could get behind is that both regimes were pushing for wins(Gentry on the hot seat, SVG by nature) and we had a situation of taking the rawest guy in the top 10 and a player that caught the yips during the regular season...The more troubling is that maybe Langdon/Griff just aren’t that good at talent evaluation and we fricked up

Gun to my head I don’t think it’s the fatal situation of the latter, but I do think it will be hard for the regime to ever justify the Hayes pick with how much developmental distance is emerging between him and his immediate BPA peers from that draft. NAW doesn’t feel like a starter in this league but he does have 6th or 7th man potential, and Kira is someone I bought into after the draft but so far to me feels like the best pick we have made since Zion.

But that’s also speaking nothing of basically striking out as an organization in FA and the Two-Way pipeline besides Reddick. Melli, Kenrich, Okafor, Cheatham, Miller, Gray, Thornwell, and Hernangomez all either were complete duds or are heavily trending toward that conclusion....And we’re crossing our fingers a journeyman undrafted FA that averaged 8 minutes in 30 games can allow us to not have to play our number 8 overall pick for the 2nd year.

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NAW seems to be a pretty good defender, and you've got to love the energy and heart he plays with, and he's been knocking down open 3's, so i don't understand why he isn't getting some run right now. We have a 3 man rotation at the 1 and 2. How is it possible he can't get minutes there?

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I think if Bledsoe keeps up his sub par offensive play, NAW might take a few minutes there. It's a weird season though, new coach, short training camp, only 2 preseason games. I think we need to wait a bit before drawing any conclusions. SVG even said that he should probably expand the rotation a bit. I agree that right now NAW looks better than Hayes. Hayes is just getting more run because we are shallow at big and deep at guard.

I just think we are in a unique position right now, and eventually players will get playing time. As stated earlier in the thread, let's see what the rotation looks like 20-30 games in. I want to see what Gabriel brings to the table, too.

Considering the team’s history with some rookies, this is probably a good thing.

Remember Austin Rivers’ rookie campaign? I wish I couldn’t.

Not saying Kira et all would be that bad but throwing a kid out there before they are ready means a good chance they get eaten alive.