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Message
re: Lonzo more 3 attempts than JJ last night
Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:49 pm to TeddyPadillac
Posted on 11/25/19 at 1:49 pm to TeddyPadillac
I'm with you.
At this point honestly I'm just hoping some other team is foolish enough to still believe in his talent that they give up something worthwhile for him.
At this point honestly I'm just hoping some other team is foolish enough to still believe in his talent that they give up something worthwhile for him.
1
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:10 pm to Fun Bunch
I had high hopes for Lonzo going into the season.
But he just straight up sucks. The play last night where he drove and got packed by Harrel like a little kid describes him as a player perfectly.
But he just straight up sucks. The play last night where he drove and got packed by Harrel like a little kid describes him as a player perfectly.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:12 pm to tgr4ever
quote:
But he just straight up sucks.
Pretty much, yeah.
Obviously, a player can get better and grow, and progress throughout this season, and make the leap in his 4th. Ingram didn't start turning it on until midway through his 3rd year and then got hurt.
But I just don't see it. Ball WANTS to be something that he is not and just refuses to do anything else.
If someone offers something worthwhile, take it.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:43 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I would like people that keep saying Lonzo will benefit from Zion to be specific about how he will benefit from it.
His best skill is passing and Zion provides an outlet for that skill. BUT
quote:
Lonzo could be running pick and rolls with Jaxson all day, yet he doesn't
The emergence of Hayes and Lonzo not utilizing it makes me think Fun Bunch is right, he wants to be something he's not.
To be fair, he has improved several of his weaknesses so maybe this is all by design and the coaches are asking him to keep doing things outside of his comfort zone so that once they become second nature he can integrate it into his core skills.
I'm just don't want to see Lonzo continue to sling up shots with irrational confidence simply because he's open. They say it all the time on the broadcast when the team makes the extra pass that turns a good shot into a great shot for a teammate. Lonzo really needs to ask himself "Is me taking a 3 the best shot available on this possession?" Sometimes it might be, if it's a catch and shoot, but if you're doing the step back hero ball 3
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:48 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
so maybe this is all by design and the coaches are asking him to keep doing things outside of his comfort zone so that once they become second nature he can integrate it into his core skills.
That's some optimism right there, but I've literally never heard this happen with a player before.
And like I said, there is time for the lightbulb to go on...but currently he just looks like a bust to me.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:48 pm to TigerinATL
In this offense, his passing is a luxury more than a need. That’s the biggest problem here. They can still move the ball and get good shots without him. The problem with Ball is trying to find what he offers outside of his passing. His defense should be that quality but his defense has not translated.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:57 pm to Fun Bunch
I without a doubt am ready to move on from him. I just hope his value doesn't get lower as the season goes on. I've pointed it out before, there aren't many teams in need of a PG like there were in the offseason. Minny, Detroit and Orlando would be the only ones i think, maybe Miami and NYK.
I honestly think he can be a good NBA player if he concentrates on the things he can be good at. He seems like he has good bball iq, just doesn't use it with his physical abilities on the court.
His role in the NBA will be as a good perimeter defender, great defensive rebounder and starting the fast break, and hopefully a smarter offensive player that can knock down open 3's in the half court. I can't see how he would ever be on the court late in games, except maybe on defense.
I honestly think he can be a good NBA player if he concentrates on the things he can be good at. He seems like he has good bball iq, just doesn't use it with his physical abilities on the court.
His role in the NBA will be as a good perimeter defender, great defensive rebounder and starting the fast break, and hopefully a smarter offensive player that can knock down open 3's in the half court. I can't see how he would ever be on the court late in games, except maybe on defense.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 2:57 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
there is time for the lightbulb to go on...but currently he just looks like a bust to me.
Unfortunately if that's the problem then the player usually has to hit rock bottom and not get the contract they think they deserve before humbling themselves and turning it around. Which means the Pels won't be the team he does that for.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:24 pm to TigerinATL
I still believe his value was always tied to Zion and will continue to be. They wanted him for his ability to get the ball to his teammates in ideal spots and scoring position. He's clearly very talented at ball placement and will be able to get the ball in Zion's hands in optimal scoring position and thus making it easier for Zion to transition in his developmental years.
I'm curious to see how this offense will evolve or change when Zion returns and we see some sort of Ball/Zion action that will be unstoppable. Ball's success is extremely reliant on a specific set of skills. I don't know what the deal is with his recent barrage of shot jacking but it's clear he doesn't have a high percentage shot in his arsenal right now. I don't think this changes this season.
I'm curious to see how this offense will evolve or change when Zion returns and we see some sort of Ball/Zion action that will be unstoppable. Ball's success is extremely reliant on a specific set of skills. I don't know what the deal is with his recent barrage of shot jacking but it's clear he doesn't have a high percentage shot in his arsenal right now. I don't think this changes this season.
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:26 pm to supe12sta12z
It certainly could be the case, and it certainly could be that he's just confused and lost as to his role on this team, and Gentry can't figure out what role he wants for him or what to do with him.
Maybe he will come around, but right now it is bad.
Maybe he will come around, but right now it is bad.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:41 pm to supe12sta12z
Still not ready to write the book on him on this team or even close to it for that matter. Young player, new system, and hes trying to discover who he is as a player in this league. Do I think he will be a all star in this league one day... absolutely not but hes just to talented to write off without a full year in this city. Lakers players went through a circus last 12 months in their lives give them a break and sometime. I think people forget these are kids mentally and just need some time. He hasnt been outside California his entire life and his family do yall ever stop to think about that?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 4:42 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
I'm curious to see how this offense will evolve or change when Zion returns and we see some sort of Ball/Zion action that will be unstoppable.
We didn't see any of that in the preseason when they were on the court together. In the preseason, we were better off with Frank or NAW out there, because they would drive to the basket and feed Zion, or Zion could clean up a miss at the rim.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 5:15 pm to GOP_Tiger
This Zo and Zion bs is ridiculous. Zion on the court is not gonna make Zo any more productive than what he his now.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 5:34 pm to Macintosh
Let me explain one of the actions and I may be totally wrong on this but I've seen how effective it was in preseason that I think this play will open things up for Ball.
A dribble hand off to Ball from either Ingram or Holiday and he drives into the lane and at the same time Zion dives to the basket. Teams will have to decide who to guard. Zion will most likely draw 2-3 defenders.
What does this do? Easy answer is to throw a lob to Williamson. But that won't always be there. Then what is the next option? It opens up the lane for Ball to get an easy layup or dunk. Or if the opposing team rotates, you either have an easy cut to the basket by one of your wings or an open three.
As you can see, this opens a lot of options for a player like Ball to pick and choose the best play using his IQ. His efficiency increases as well as he will get easy baskets when the paint is cleared due to the threat of Zion diving into the paint.
I think there's a chance Ball will look infinitely better when he is in a position to use his strength. Now whether it'll work out the way I laid it out remains to be seen but everything I've seen in preseason leads me to believe that Ball is better when he has an elite finisher on the court with him.
A dribble hand off to Ball from either Ingram or Holiday and he drives into the lane and at the same time Zion dives to the basket. Teams will have to decide who to guard. Zion will most likely draw 2-3 defenders.
What does this do? Easy answer is to throw a lob to Williamson. But that won't always be there. Then what is the next option? It opens up the lane for Ball to get an easy layup or dunk. Or if the opposing team rotates, you either have an easy cut to the basket by one of your wings or an open three.
As you can see, this opens a lot of options for a player like Ball to pick and choose the best play using his IQ. His efficiency increases as well as he will get easy baskets when the paint is cleared due to the threat of Zion diving into the paint.
I think there's a chance Ball will look infinitely better when he is in a position to use his strength. Now whether it'll work out the way I laid it out remains to be seen but everything I've seen in preseason leads me to believe that Ball is better when he has an elite finisher on the court with him.
This post was edited on 11/25/19 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 11/25/19 at 7:31 pm to supe12sta12z
I've tried watching Lonzo through both a positive lens and negative lens.
He IS coming back from injury (after missing a lot last year). His role ISN'T well defined, and there's a lot of competition for the minutes he is playing. He does have a knack for a smooth pass every now and then. So, maybe he just needs to figure it all out.
Still - he's the only ball handler that jogs the ball up (with no positive impact.) He's completely stagnant off the ball, sometimes looking disinterested. He doesn't drive well OR shoot well, and there's no indication either of those are improving. (Maybe his shots MADE are, but his shot is still ugly.)
When I watch him, all I see Hornets/Pelicans Austin Rivers. A guy who's supposed to have more talent than he actually does and doesn't know how to improve.
Is that who he is as a player?
He IS coming back from injury (after missing a lot last year). His role ISN'T well defined, and there's a lot of competition for the minutes he is playing. He does have a knack for a smooth pass every now and then. So, maybe he just needs to figure it all out.
Still - he's the only ball handler that jogs the ball up (with no positive impact.) He's completely stagnant off the ball, sometimes looking disinterested. He doesn't drive well OR shoot well, and there's no indication either of those are improving. (Maybe his shots MADE are, but his shot is still ugly.)
When I watch him, all I see Hornets/Pelicans Austin Rivers. A guy who's supposed to have more talent than he actually does and doesn't know how to improve.
Is that who he is as a player?
Posted on 11/25/19 at 8:08 pm to Macintosh
Zion will absolutely make him better on the court. Zion will make EVERYONE better on the court.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 8:11 pm to Sheep
I noticed that too ..Zo jogging the ball up on multiple occasions. I'm thinking Zo is not confident in his conditioning. He is a half to full step slower than his normal play. Both he and BI missed out on a summer of conditioning, this is where the training staff will be counted on.
Posted on 11/25/19 at 9:49 pm to JSRG123
I’ve been trying to be patient and give him the benefit of the doubt, but I’m afraid he just sucks.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 8:54 am to whatiknowsofar
Is 34% considered bad now? I personally find that to be a pleasant surprise.
Posted on 11/26/19 at 9:42 am to Milesahead
quote:
Is 34% considered bad now? I personally find that to be a pleasant surprise.
That's 1.02 points per possession. The Magic are the leagues worst PPP team at 1.03. The Lakers are the top at 1.17.
As you can easily extrapolate, 1.02 PPP is 102 points for 100 possessions, where as 1.17 is 117 points for 100 possessions. Teams average anywhere from 100-110 possessions per game for the season.
Our team 3P% of 38.2% is 1.15 PPP, which is pretty good and 5th in the league. There are 20 teams shooting better than Lonzo from 3.
You tell me if you think it's bad or not.
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