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Message
re: KAT wants to be traded from the Wolves
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:38 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:38 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
You cannot. As everyone has said, he has 4+ years left on his contract.
Most star players we have seen disgruntled and asking for a trade have had a year or two at most. With that level of time left on the deal, the asking price if any will be astronomical. It will start with Jrue and then most of our picks and Lakers picks for the next 4 years.
There is simply no need to do this now.
Relax. Take a deep breath. For once in this shitty franchise's history, take a long term approach
Wolves aren’t going to want Jrue, so whatever “everyone” else said is wrong.
However, it is possible you need to move him to get additional assets/make the future roster more whole, and I am open to that.
No one is hyperventilating here but you and your ridiculous exaggerations.
You still aren’t really articulating a strong case for why sitting on our hands is a better approach other than trying to claim this is a repeat of Demps mistakes when it is not(while contradicting yourself in saying you are all for trading assets in the near future on a not-Towns player, for what will no doubt be just as astronomical a price).
KAT is not Evans, Asik, Gordon, or even Jrue. He is a bonafide superstar playing at a historical level on a bad team. Meaning you watch any game and he is the sole focus of defenses. He comes here and those doubles and triples turn into single coverage or you risk leaving a budding set of superstars open to unleash havoc.
And I have never said I am all in on this, but I am open and can absolutely see why this would not just work, but likely dominate over the next 5 seasons if the core remains healthy. The potential trio alone is one capable of incredible complimentary talents and synergy. And if you really believe winning with a big man as your best player is folly, then you should be clamoring to trade Zion now. As that is exactly what this team will be building for in the next 7+ years.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 10:41 am
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Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:46 am to GOP_Tiger
Good point- back to basket as primary option is dead for a title team. Towns is great there, but he's got more tricks in his bag. Same time, that Dirk team is also notable for being the last one that didn't feature an elite creator/scorer on the perimeter.
Going Twin Towers can work, but only if one of the guys can initiate perimeter offense (like the Pels tried with Davis/Cousins). Most Pels fans think Ingram or Zion or both can become an elite perimeter playmaker.
I get being patient and not wanting to rush in (though it is humorous that much of the discourse here is the antithesis of patience). I'm not advocating for a trade right now.
Rather I am baffled by the hypotheticals that push Towns won't work on offense with Zion and Ingram. Towns is, thus far, putting up historic offensive numbers. He's played with a lot of shitty players for a team that has been among the worst in the league for a over a decade. I have little doubt an offense featuring Towns, Ingram, Zion would be electric.
Yet, it's not really hard to dump cold water on this trade idea- talk about the defensive limits of Towns. If you can't rely on/scheme around Towns on defense in playoff games, then you can't trade for/pay him
Going Twin Towers can work, but only if one of the guys can initiate perimeter offense (like the Pels tried with Davis/Cousins). Most Pels fans think Ingram or Zion or both can become an elite perimeter playmaker.
I get being patient and not wanting to rush in (though it is humorous that much of the discourse here is the antithesis of patience). I'm not advocating for a trade right now.
Rather I am baffled by the hypotheticals that push Towns won't work on offense with Zion and Ingram. Towns is, thus far, putting up historic offensive numbers. He's played with a lot of shitty players for a team that has been among the worst in the league for a over a decade. I have little doubt an offense featuring Towns, Ingram, Zion would be electric.
Yet, it's not really hard to dump cold water on this trade idea- talk about the defensive limits of Towns. If you can't rely on/scheme around Towns on defense in playoff games, then you can't trade for/pay him
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:48 am to corndeaux
quote:
Rather I am baffled by the hypotheticals that push Towns won't work on offense with Zion and Ingram.
Just to be fair, I think he would work extremely well with them on Offense. That has never been my issue with this whole scenario.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:53 am to Fun Bunch
They wouldn't want Jrue.
It would take Ball, Hayes and NAW going out though, along with all Lakers picks, and 2-3 of our own..
I wouldn't be opposed to a deal of:
KAT
Covington
For
Ball
Hayes
NAW
Moore (buyout)
Miller(buyout)
Melli (buyout likely)
2020-2025 1st rounders (6 total)
That would be the absolute max I would go though
Starting 5 would be:
Jrue
Ingram
Covington
Zion
KAT
Sub 5:
Frank
Redick
Hart
Kenrich
Favors
I would probably go out and sign Crawford, or if Favors wants to be moved, try to get Toronto to give up Van Vleet, or Chicago to move Satoransky
It would take Ball, Hayes and NAW going out though, along with all Lakers picks, and 2-3 of our own..
I wouldn't be opposed to a deal of:
KAT
Covington
For
Ball
Hayes
NAW
Moore (buyout)
Miller(buyout)
Melli (buyout likely)
2020-2025 1st rounders (6 total)
That would be the absolute max I would go though
Starting 5 would be:
Jrue
Ingram
Covington
Zion
KAT
Sub 5:
Frank
Redick
Hart
Kenrich
Favors
I would probably go out and sign Crawford, or if Favors wants to be moved, try to get Toronto to give up Van Vleet, or Chicago to move Satoransky
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 10:57 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:01 am to corndeaux
quote:
Rather I am baffled by the hypotheticals that push Towns won't work on offense with Zion and Ingram
right. not wanting KAT because you don't want to rush the timeline is one thing. not wanting KAT because you don't think he'd fit next to Zion & BI is quite another
in fact, I'd love to get LaMarcus Aldridge on this team, a player similar to KAT. Elite mid-range shooter, 40% 3 point shooter this season with a solid back-to-the-basket game
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:08 am to Soggymoss
If you could pull that off that is a championship caliber team for potentially the next half decade.
Heck, I think that unit would give fits to the Clippers/Lakers this year.
You could still go big or small with Reddick on the roster and moving Zion to center for stretches.
The problem with any of these gambles in this new inflated market is you drain your war chest to pull them off. The upside to this trade unlike the clippers/lakers though is that you have your core under contract, which means, barring catastrophic injury, at any point you can recoup a lot of value by flipping some of the pieces. Potentially with Ingram’s growth, actually come out on top a bit. Since he is trending toward being a kings ransom fetching player himself in a season or two.
On the surface it looks steep, but assume a semi worst-case scenario and the roster is just a dud. The defense is a sieve and the offense can’t gel. You still have KAT and Ingram(and theoretically Zion) as major assets that will fetch a major haul because all are locked up so long and unlike Gordon/Jrue/Evans, have all demonstrated their bonafides(or outrageous high potential in Zion’s case).
Heck, I think that unit would give fits to the Clippers/Lakers this year.
You could still go big or small with Reddick on the roster and moving Zion to center for stretches.
The problem with any of these gambles in this new inflated market is you drain your war chest to pull them off. The upside to this trade unlike the clippers/lakers though is that you have your core under contract, which means, barring catastrophic injury, at any point you can recoup a lot of value by flipping some of the pieces. Potentially with Ingram’s growth, actually come out on top a bit. Since he is trending toward being a kings ransom fetching player himself in a season or two.
On the surface it looks steep, but assume a semi worst-case scenario and the roster is just a dud. The defense is a sieve and the offense can’t gel. You still have KAT and Ingram(and theoretically Zion) as major assets that will fetch a major haul because all are locked up so long and unlike Gordon/Jrue/Evans, have all demonstrated their bonafides(or outrageous high potential in Zion’s case).
Posted on 12/31/19 at 1:05 pm to Soggymoss
Way to much to give up he's a great player but giving up 6 players and 6 first round picks is retarded no gm is giving all that up that it would destroy your franchise
Posted on 12/31/19 at 1:35 pm to tigersmanager
No, if you have three of the planet's best 25 players on your team for the next four years guaranteed, then no it would not destroy your franchise.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 1:44 pm to Soggymoss
quote:Wayyyyyyy too much to give up.
Ball
Hayes
NAW
Moore (buyout)
Miller(buyout)
Melli (buyout likely)
2020-2025 1st rounders (6 total)
You also better put some serious protection on that 2020 pick.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 1:57 pm to tigersmanager
quote:
Way to much to give up he's a great player but giving up 6 players and 6 first round picks is retarded no gm is giving all that up that it would destroy your franchise
Again, you are not losing these assets to the void, you are swapping and combining them into a top 15, top 10 player in this league to go with your top 25 player and potential
Top ten player.
This is not giving up a first on Asik here or eating your cap space on a albatross contract like Evans. This isn’t even giving up two firsts for a yet fully proven Jrue. If it doesn’t work with Kat in two-three seasons you can still trade him for multiple firsts and either some young prospects or key veterans.
Im not saying I would pay the price that poster is willing, but people need to get out of their head this binary thinking when it comes to these mega trades. If you are involving top 25 players you are going to be able to better recoup that value if things go sideways than following the Demps method of trading assets for yet proven players that havent earned a positive reputation.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 12/31/19 at 2:13 pm to Macintosh
Pass on KAT, Favors + Hayes moving forward at Post. They just need to develop as threat 16’ - 18’ to keep lane open. With Zion coming back, a backup stretch 4 that can play big will be needed. Be nice if Melli was ready.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 2:26 pm to shel311
Like I said, that is the absolute MAX
I wouldn't add a 2nd rounder if Minny wanted it to get the deal done.
Hold back 2 of those 1st rounders though, and the deal looks alot better.
Of course, if at all possible I move Favors for other assets to send to Minny, and try to keep from sending them Hayes..
All moot though, as I really wouldnt want to trade for KAT, I would rather get Covington and Turner for alot cheaper if we go the route of looking for a stretch 5..
Either way, I want Covington
I wouldn't add a 2nd rounder if Minny wanted it to get the deal done.
Hold back 2 of those 1st rounders though, and the deal looks alot better.
Of course, if at all possible I move Favors for other assets to send to Minny, and try to keep from sending them Hayes..
All moot though, as I really wouldnt want to trade for KAT, I would rather get Covington and Turner for alot cheaper if we go the route of looking for a stretch 5..
Either way, I want Covington
Posted on 12/31/19 at 4:03 pm to Soggymoss
Simply labeling KAT a center and comparing him to old school centers is lazy. He in nothing like the old school centers. He is a fantastic 3 point shooter and a good shot blocker as well. However, he plays no defense. Given his age and abilities, you would definitely try and put together a package to pair him with Zion and BI. However, remember that supposedly the reason he wants out is that the team is losing. Why would he demand a trade and come here?
There is no way I would give up 3 good young players and 6 1st rounders as suggested earlier. That is absurd. Having said all that, it is really a super long shot at best that we would even be in the conversation.
There is no way I would give up 3 good young players and 6 1st rounders as suggested earlier. That is absurd. Having said all that, it is really a super long shot at best that we would even be in the conversation.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 4:04 pm to Pistol44
quote:Looking like signing Melli was a mistake. He does not appear to fit the NBA style of play (or at least the Pelicans style of play). We probably would have been better off keeping Wood.
Pass on KAT, Favors + Hayes moving forward at Post. They just need to develop as threat 16’ - 18’ to keep lane open. With Zion coming back, a backup stretch 4 that can play big will be needed. Be nice if Melli was ready.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 4:23 pm to NOSHAU
The big we need and are missing is mirotic. Seriously he's the stretch 4 that fits what we need
Posted on 12/31/19 at 5:10 pm to htran90
To me, it’s Myles Turner.
Prime Al Horford is honestly the ideal pairing for Zion right now, KAT isn’t far behind, but realistically Turner is who I would prefer, who gives you 80% of what you look for at a much cheaper price.
But honestly, as entertaining as the speculation is, there is zero chance they trade KAT this season and very little chance they do it this summer either.
Prime Al Horford is honestly the ideal pairing for Zion right now, KAT isn’t far behind, but realistically Turner is who I would prefer, who gives you 80% of what you look for at a much cheaper price.
But honestly, as entertaining as the speculation is, there is zero chance they trade KAT this season and very little chance they do it this summer either.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 5:15 pm
Posted on 1/1/20 at 7:35 am to shel311
quote:
Feels like what KAT is worth is just more than I'd want to give up.
they can have lonzo and jrue and 2nd rounder in 2021.
Pels get kat.
This post was edited on 1/1/20 at 10:26 am
Posted on 1/1/20 at 4:22 pm to Bronc
quote:Turner would be great and was hoping he was our target when we were rumored to be shopping the #4 pick for a player with all-star potential. Not sure if the Pacers have any interest in dealing him, but if so, he will not come cheaply.
To me, it’s Myles Turner.
Prime Al Horford is honestly the ideal pairing for Zion right now, KAT isn’t far behind, but realistically Turner is who I would prefer, who gives you 80% of what you look for at a much cheaper price.
But honestly, as entertaining as the speculation is, there is zero chance they trade KAT this season and very little chance they do it this summer either.
Posted on 1/1/20 at 4:35 pm to NOSHAU
According to their local newspaper writer we made an offer of “good quality” right before the draft for Turner and they turned it down.
So it seems like they are willing to listen, and we are/were genuinely interested, but Indiana are putting a pretty high price on him.
So it seems like they are willing to listen, and we are/were genuinely interested, but Indiana are putting a pretty high price on him.
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