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re: Jaxson Hayes Interview in The Athletic
Posted on 12/20/21 at 12:25 pm to CelticDog
Posted on 12/20/21 at 12:25 pm to CelticDog
I was sold after the tourney. Hayes has great talent and the late bloomer narrative had me fooled. We needed a Center and he was far and away the best pure Center prospect in the draft. No doubt, he is a bust. It hurts. But it wasn't a bad move and he wouldn't have slid out of the top 10. Someone else would have taken him.
I do think we are somewhat to blame. There is zero faith in the kid. We kept picking up guys to block him and not develop him. I don't know what was put in place to mentor or challenge him. But raw or not, if you're taken you top 10, you have to contribute by year 2 and play significantly by year 3. Anything less than that is a big letdown..
I do think we are somewhat to blame. There is zero faith in the kid. We kept picking up guys to block him and not develop him. I don't know what was put in place to mentor or challenge him. But raw or not, if you're taken you top 10, you have to contribute by year 2 and play significantly by year 3. Anything less than that is a big letdown..
2
Posted on 12/20/21 at 12:39 pm to brmark70816
quote:No one has really blocked him.
There is zero faith in the kid. We kept picking up guys to block him and not develop him.
First, we can't just not sign a guy like JV with the hope that Jax will pan out. Through 2 seasons, there was zero reason to believe he was ready to be a starter in year 3, so we had to make moves, and again, since Jax wasn't going to be a starter, JV isn't blocking him.
Willy isn't blocking him either as Jax was the backup last season and this season. Willy has simply outplayed him and taken over the role because Jax hasn't showed he deserved role player minutes.
There's a huge difference from being "blocked" and us going out and getting guys to fill roles that Jax hasn't earned.
quote:If Willy stealing his minutes doesn't challenge him, what will?
I don't know what was put in place to mentor or challenge him
Posted on 12/20/21 at 2:30 pm to brmark70816
quote:there has been no one to blame but himself. Terrible take, once again.
I do think we are somewhat to blame. There is zero faith in the kid. We kept picking up guys to block him and not develop him. I don't know what was put in place to mentor or challenge him. But raw or not, if you're taken you top 10, you have to contribute by year 2 and play significantly by year 3. Anything less than that is a big letdown..
Posted on 12/20/21 at 3:31 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
quote:
there has been no one to blame but himself.
The next great talent that we develop will be the first one in a decade (Since Davis?). We are horrible at it. That's why everyone is so excited about Jones and his potential. It's just not something we are good at.
If you take someone top 10 and want them to succeed, you have to play them. It will probably be a struggle. But that's how players get better. Instead, in 3 years we have added new starters at the same position every year.
Hayes can't play PF. He is a Center. If Favors, Adams, Val are going to play 30+mpg and we go small a lot, he just isn't going to get much of an opportunity.
Also the idea that you can develop him off the bench is just flawed. Lots of starters become poo when moved to the bench and even more vice versa. The fact he isn't a good back up has little bearing on if he could be a solid starter. Obviously he hasn't shown enough in practice to beat out those guys we signed/got in trades. But it's still a flawed practice.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 3:48 pm to brmark70816
quote:
The next great talent that we develop will be the first one in a decade (Since Davis?). We are horrible at it. That's why everyone is so excited about Jones and his potential. It's just not something we are good at.
Wut?
The guy you’ve shite on, Ingram, has gotten immensely better since he got here. Hence Most Improved
We rebuilt Lonzos shot completely.
The Demps era had very little prospects to build because we moved our draft assets.
Frank Jackson was the most exciting prospect we had after Davis was established and he was a second rounder.
We have a consensus top 3 developmental coach in the most important skill in basketball.
Now that we finally have a GLeague team, it remains to be seen the full impact of player development.
Hayes however has blown EVERY chance at playing time he’s ever had.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 4:03 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Every time I engage with brmark in one of these threads, I regret it.
I only engaged about his inaccurate Ja speculation to try to stop the inevitable thread derailment, and of course, it didn't work, because all of you have to treat his crap seriously.
Now he's done it again.
I only engaged about his inaccurate Ja speculation to try to stop the inevitable thread derailment, and of course, it didn't work, because all of you have to treat his crap seriously.
Now he's done it again.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 4:13 pm to ThanosIsADemocrat
Not sure what other big men can say they came into the league and got 3 elite mentors to shadow: Derrick Favors(say what you want about his decline, but he has a great reputation as a teammate and his fundamentals were as solid as it comes), Steven Adams, and Jonas Valuncianas.
I mean the kid basically got to shadow 3 of the best big men teammates you could ask for in the league. And with Vinson on the roster basically any skill he wanted to learn he had an expert teacher at his disposal between his teammates and our coaches. Favors and Adams both experts at the fundamentals of defense and defensive communication, how to carry yourself on and off the court. Set screens, rebound, box out, do the dirty work. Val, one of the most skilled low post scorers in the game currently, who grew his game to the three point line, also an excellent rebounder. Vinson an elite shooting coach to turn him into a stretch player he claimed to have developed this offseason but we have seen little of.
Hell, BI is an incredibly skilled mid range player, Jax should be studying tape on everything BI does on the block because a lot of it is classic PF skills.
But by all accounts he's done little to none of this.
I mean the kid basically got to shadow 3 of the best big men teammates you could ask for in the league. And with Vinson on the roster basically any skill he wanted to learn he had an expert teacher at his disposal between his teammates and our coaches. Favors and Adams both experts at the fundamentals of defense and defensive communication, how to carry yourself on and off the court. Set screens, rebound, box out, do the dirty work. Val, one of the most skilled low post scorers in the game currently, who grew his game to the three point line, also an excellent rebounder. Vinson an elite shooting coach to turn him into a stretch player he claimed to have developed this offseason but we have seen little of.
Hell, BI is an incredibly skilled mid range player, Jax should be studying tape on everything BI does on the block because a lot of it is classic PF skills.
But by all accounts he's done little to none of this.
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 12/20/21 at 4:25 pm to Bronc
I agree Bronc.
I mean something as simple as setting good screens would do wonders for Jaxson. He's a truly elite and gifted rim runner, and if he was better at setting screens (and i'll be the first to say what the ball handler does is usually more important than the screener), then he could get better at the one thing he already does well.
He just has no one to blame but himself for his lack of progression in year 3. All the skills and god given gifts to be a really good basketball player, and he simply sucks right now.
I mean something as simple as setting good screens would do wonders for Jaxson. He's a truly elite and gifted rim runner, and if he was better at setting screens (and i'll be the first to say what the ball handler does is usually more important than the screener), then he could get better at the one thing he already does well.
He just has no one to blame but himself for his lack of progression in year 3. All the skills and god given gifts to be a really good basketball player, and he simply sucks right now.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 4:47 pm to GOP_Tiger
What are you going on about?
I didn't say anything inaccurate about Morant. I didn't say anything contrarion about Hayes.
He is responsible for his failure. I agree. I do believe that we do have some level of responsibility anytime a player is a failure. I am pondering on what we could have done better and were the circumstances the best for him to succeed. That is all. It's a postmortem discussion..
I didn't say anything inaccurate about Morant. I didn't say anything contrarion about Hayes.
He is responsible for his failure. I agree. I do believe that we do have some level of responsibility anytime a player is a failure. I am pondering on what we could have done better and were the circumstances the best for him to succeed. That is all. It's a postmortem discussion..
Posted on 12/21/21 at 3:11 am to brmark70816
Jaxson was horrible at rebounding coming into the league. He’s improved by leaps and bounds in this department. Jax basketball IQ was even worse, probably due to being fairly new to the sport. As far as defensive positioning, when to set screens and shite like that there was definitely a lot to be desired.
He’s improved but to his point he still needs to find the rhythm of his game. I think Alvin offense was great for him. The structure kind of holds him back when’s he’s not getting any plays ran through him.
Willie steals Jax minutes because he’s a low maintenance smart(er) basketball player.
Jax needs be more of a focal point when on the floor with the second unit. Throw the ball to him in the paint and let him make a play. I also think he should be playing the four, but more importantly I think he needs to be on the floor.
He’s improved but to his point he still needs to find the rhythm of his game. I think Alvin offense was great for him. The structure kind of holds him back when’s he’s not getting any plays ran through him.
Willie steals Jax minutes because he’s a low maintenance smart(er) basketball player.
Jax needs be more of a focal point when on the floor with the second unit. Throw the ball to him in the paint and let him make a play. I also think he should be playing the four, but more importantly I think he needs to be on the floor.
Posted on 12/21/21 at 5:09 am to Don Pel
quote:
also think he should be playing the four, but more importantly I think he needs to be on the floor.
Can you explain why he should play the 4? Tell me how I'm wrong here. To play the 4, Hayes would be paired with Val or Hernangomez. What would be the advantage of playing those pairs together?
Posted on 12/21/21 at 7:11 am to Don Pel
quote:
Jax needs be more of a focal point when on the floor with the second unit. Throw the ball to him in the paint and let him make a play.
You need reliable go-to moves to be a go-to guy, Jax has none of that.
Posted on 12/21/21 at 7:39 am to Bronc
Yeah, Jaxson does not have good offensive post skills. Which is OK, because that's not a critical skill for a center in today's NBA game---that's not why he's not playing. But he's not even strong enough to establish position, much less to be able to do anything with the ball if we were able to feed it to him in the low post.
Jaxson's best offensive skill is as a roll man in the P&R. Unfortunately, we lack an elite P&R initiator to pair with him. Last season, he paired well with Kira, because Kira is quick enough turning the corner to open up Jaxson for the lob. The combo of Kira, Jaxson, and Hart was a great for us last season (Hart makes up for Jaxson's deficiency on the defensive glass). That's part of how Jaxson was a better player for us last season than Billy.
Unfortunately, Kira struggled at the beginning of the year, and now he's hurt. So, unless we trade for a guard who is an excellent P&R initiator, I don't see a pathway for Jaxson to get minutes, barring an injury, unless Jaxson improves his defense or gets stronger.
Jaxson's best offensive skill is as a roll man in the P&R. Unfortunately, we lack an elite P&R initiator to pair with him. Last season, he paired well with Kira, because Kira is quick enough turning the corner to open up Jaxson for the lob. The combo of Kira, Jaxson, and Hart was a great for us last season (Hart makes up for Jaxson's deficiency on the defensive glass). That's part of how Jaxson was a better player for us last season than Billy.
Unfortunately, Kira struggled at the beginning of the year, and now he's hurt. So, unless we trade for a guard who is an excellent P&R initiator, I don't see a pathway for Jaxson to get minutes, barring an injury, unless Jaxson improves his defense or gets stronger.
Posted on 12/21/21 at 10:54 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I've had a few people ask me this since the interview dropped.
To be clear, I did ask Jaxson if he had a discussion with Willie Green about what he needs to do to get back in the rotation.
Jaxson said he would rather not comment, so I left that question out.
This sounds like he can't do anything to get his minutes back
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:04 am to Soggymoss
Or, sounds like Jaxson was being passive aggressive toward Green, in the "I'll get myself in trouble if I comment ont he record" sense, since the rest of the interview he seems to be deflecting blame to everyone but himself, most significantly the coach.
"I just need an oppurtunity!"
Bruh, we literally fired the last coach in part because he wasn't playing you guys at the volume Griff wanted, and were gifted 20+ minutes to start the season, take some fricking ownership!
"I just need an oppurtunity!"
Bruh, we literally fired the last coach in part because he wasn't playing you guys at the volume Griff wanted, and were gifted 20+ minutes to start the season, take some fricking ownership!
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:14 am to Soggymoss
I remember Willie was asked during one of the post practice interviews about what Hayes has to do to get back into the rotation and he bluntly said that conversation is between him and Jaxson with no further details. Moved on from the question really quick.
Green is usually very optimistic and very complimentary of these young guys even when they struggle. But it's clear Hayes doesn't play with effort and that's a nonnegotiable for Green.
Green is usually very optimistic and very complimentary of these young guys even when they struggle. But it's clear Hayes doesn't play with effort and that's a nonnegotiable for Green.
This post was edited on 12/21/21 at 11:16 am
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:31 am to brmark70816
Sounds as if there are internal team issues, but you'd have to envision Hayes in a Bosh, Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, McHale, Aldridge role. All could play spot minutes at the 5 but were predominately 4s and played alongside traditional centers just fine. You do this because we have a glaring hole at the 4 and a lack of on-court difference makers. You let Billy or Val take the dunker spot and anchor the D and have Hayes cover perimeter on pick and roll where we've seen him excel.
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:32 am to GOP_Tiger
He played his arse off last year and isn’t really even attempting to this year. As a Hayes apologist it’s really as simple as that. He’s not doing any of things that made him successful last year.
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:39 am to Pistol44
I'm open to the idea, at the same time, Jax has looked almost like rookie Jax with the number of errors and lapses he's been committing.
And since he isn't Mobley, I don't really know how well a two big lineup would fair. It works in Cle and LAL because those 4's bring a lot to the table offensively, Hayes doesnt. I mean who helps give Val space a the 4? Hayes, or BI? If you are talking about Billy, you kind of get a free pass to double or triple others.
I'd be willing to try it though, just for the data.
But in my mind the alternatives make more sense than Jax at the 4.
It might make sense for Jax, but not for the team.
And since he isn't Mobley, I don't really know how well a two big lineup would fair. It works in Cle and LAL because those 4's bring a lot to the table offensively, Hayes doesnt. I mean who helps give Val space a the 4? Hayes, or BI? If you are talking about Billy, you kind of get a free pass to double or triple others.
I'd be willing to try it though, just for the data.
But in my mind the alternatives make more sense than Jax at the 4.
It might make sense for Jax, but not for the team.
This post was edited on 12/21/21 at 11:40 am
Posted on 12/21/21 at 11:43 am to Bronc
Thank you. I was trying to find a way to explain that. You did it perfectly..
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