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re: Jaxson Hayes Interview in The Athletic
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:43 am to brmark70816
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:43 am to brmark70816
quote:
Trade a mega package to Memphis for the 2nd pick?
They weren't taking. They believed(and it has proven mostly right) that Morant was the 1B to Zion and a superstar talent they could centerpiece around.
quote:
Another issue with a redraft using hindsight is that we still don't end up with Garland.
The argument isnt a redraft with hindsight, its that Griff should have simply taken BPA of Garland(or even Hunter, who when healthy is a top 10 perimeter defender that can switch five positions).
Griff did that thing he does where he goes deep into his dunning-Krueger personality and thinks he's smarter than everyone else and turns out, he isnt
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 7:46 am
1
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:48 am to Bronc
I am not sure about that. If we offer them 4, 6 and 3 future 1sts they aren't moving down? Maybe even throw in Ingram? 4 and Ingram? 4, Ingram and Ball?
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:52 am to brmark70816
quote:
I am not sure about that. If we offer them 4, 6 and 3 future 1sts they aren't moving down? Maybe even throw in Ingram? 4 and Ingram? 4, Ingram and Ball?
I mean all signs point to the answer would have been no, there were rumors at the time of godfather offers from teams to Memphis and they shut them down.
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 7:53 am
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:55 am to Soggymoss
quote:
There was no basketball being played, so what scouts would've been able to scout? You could conduct interviews, that's about it. Scouting is a year around job, it's not something you get done in 2 months.
Proper interviews are the only thing that might have revealed Jaxson's attitude, lack of interest in being coached, poor work ethic, and boneheadedness.
I'll say it again: the draft is a crapshoot, and it's really hard to know how someone is going to turn out. But that's why David Griffin gets paid the big bucks to run the team and we don't: he's supposed to find out the little things that make the difference in selecting the right guy vs the wrong guy.
And if that were the only big mistake our front office had made, we'd be in the top four in the West right now, even without Zion.
We're not anywhere close to that. You can't give Griffin credit for finding Herb in the 2nd round and not also give him the blame for taking Jaxson at #8.
Yes, some of it is luck. It was unlucky for Dell Demps that Boogie tore his achilles. But luck is part of the game, and organizations have to make their own luck.
Soggy, I am not pro-Griffin the way that you are, nor am I anti-Griffin the way Bronc is. I want to give our front office credit where credit is due, and hold them accountable where they fail.
I think that it's BS to pay attention to the Zion piano story crap, or the bitterness of Alvin Gentry, or whether anyone thinks that Griffin sounds like a used-car salesman. Because what matters is the product that's put on the court---that's how David Griffin should be judged. And that hasn't looked very good this season, though I certainly grant that it is looking better lately.
In the end, though, three years of Zion + BI should result in a playoff appearance.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 7:56 am to Bronc
quote:
I mean all signs point to the answer would have been no, there were rumors at the time of godfather offers from teams to Memphis and they shut them down.
We always do this. "Would you take my $.45 worth of dimes and nickels for that shiny quarter?" That only works when a player forces his way out and limits the team's options while doing so. The thing teams hope to get with all of those picks you'd give them is someone like Ja. Why would they take a bunch of shots that at best get them what they already have?
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:02 am to TigerinATL
Yeah, what we actually tried to do with the #4 pick (trade it for Myles Turner) was the best move. I didn't think that Turner was worth it at the time, and I definitely don't think so now, but we would have been so much better off if Indiana had taken that deal, as we wouldn't have spent later picks on Adams and Valanciunas.
[Edit: Bronc is correct that "best" is not the right word. It would have been so much better than what we actually did, though.]
[Edit: Bronc is correct that "best" is not the right word. It would have been so much better than what we actually did, though.]
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 8:13 am
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:03 am to brmark70816
quote:
Griffin played the %s and lost.
The %'s that Griffin played weren't good at all, b/c he's a terrible GM when it comes to the draft and history has proven that.
First of all, you don't trade down in the draft. It's rarely ever worked out for the team trading down. So his percentages immediately went down when he decided to trade down based on the history of teams trading down.
He doubled down on that by taking a very raw athletic 5 in the lottery, something that also rarely ever works out. I'm not going research the post I had months ago about that, but i showed how rare it is for a raw 5 to be anything but a bust when taken in the lottery.
So yeah he did play the %'s, like a dumbass, and he lost, as expected, so yes the trade absolutely was awful.
Had we drafted Culver and he end up a bust, i could almost live with that. yeah it sucks, but it happens. But trying to outsmart the analytics and failing miserably, that's i can't live with.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:08 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Yeah, what we actually tried to do with the #4 pick (trade it for Myles Turner) was the best move.
That wasnt good either, not when someone like Turner is likely to be had for a couple mid/late firsts now.
Griff got cute and thought he knew more than the collective wisdom of the league and the Pels paid the price.
We were in year one of a rebuild, take the best player at 4 and be happy.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:10 am to brmark70816
quote:That was never a realistic option.
If we magically could go back, wouldn't we just go after Morant? Trade a mega package to Memphis for the 2nd pick?
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:20 am to shel311
quote:
That was never a realistic option
Ingram, Ball, Holiday, the 4th pick, our future 1sts and the ones we got from the Lakers. All of that and we didn't have the ammo to get the 2nd pick? Memphis was that locked in?
That is everything we got for Davis, plus Holiday and a lot more. That wouldn't have been enough? I find that hard to believe..
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:22 am to brmark70816
quote:
That is everything we got for Davis, plus Holiday and a lot more. That wouldn't have been enough? I find that hard to believe..
You may find it hard to believe, but the Grizzlies were not interested in fielding any offers for the #2 pick. They were very clear about it at the time. Give it up.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:30 am to GOP_Tiger
Once again, not true. Memphis was starting a rebuild and they were split on the pick. There was discussion about taking Barrett at 2. They hit a homerun with Morant and it would have taken a lot to move them. But it could have been done. Just a matter of cost. Every player and pick is available at the right cost.
I'm not saying we should have made the move. Just illustrating what these type of talks devolve into, with could of, would of, should of. It's a circular debate with no winner..
I'm not saying we should have made the move. Just illustrating what these type of talks devolve into, with could of, would of, should of. It's a circular debate with no winner..
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:37 am to brmark70816
quote:
Memphis was starting a rebuild and they were split on the pick. There was discussion about taking Barrett at 2.
Can you verify this?
Maybe, maybe if you literally gave up everything: Ingram, Ball, Lakers picks, our picks, you might get them to give the pick up, maybe, but at that point, what is the point?
We'd be right back where we were with AD, resources exhausted and a roster around our two stars that is a bunch of cast offs and leftovers from FA and other leagues.
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 8:39 am
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:47 am to Bronc
quote:
Can you verify this?
I could go find a bunch of old mocks debating it back and forth. There will be speculation, but I don't know how reliable it would be. But Barrett and Morant was a debate at the time.
Memphis was super active before the draft. I know they fell in love with Morant and it was the right pick. No doubt. I just believe that everything has a price. Nothing is off the table.
quote:
Maybe, maybe if you literally gave up everything: Ingram, Ball, Lakers picks, our picks, you might get them to give the pick up, maybe, but at that point, what is the point?
That's kind of my point. It could have been done. I don't think it would have costs as much as others. Ingram was diminished at the time and didn't have as much value (with the health scare). But we were stocked otherwise.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:52 am to brmark70816
quote:
I could go find a bunch of old mocks debating it back and forth. There will be speculation, but I don't know how reliable it would be. But Barrett and Morant was a debate at the time.
I'm talking from Memphis's side.
From every report I ever came across from that time period, for Memphis, it was Morant, and there was no waffling. They loved him.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 8:55 am to brmark70816
quote:We were never ever ever going to trade Jrue there.
Ingram, Ball, Holiday, the 4th pick, our future 1sts and the ones we got from the Lakers. All of that and we didn't have the ammo to get the 2nd pick? Memphis was that locked in?
Say what you want about what we should have done, what kind of say the players have, we were going to do right by Jrue and send him to a contender.
Again, that was not a realistic option.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 10:48 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
You may find it hard to believe, but the Grizzlies were not interested in fielding any offers for the #2 pick. They were very clear about it at the time. Give it up.
Just chiming in. They can say that, but if you offer this...
quote:
Ingram, Ball, Holiday, the 4th pick, our future 1sts and the ones we got from the Lakers
They take it. %100. They be idiots not to.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 11:10 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
They take it. %100. They be idiots not to.
Probably, but at the time, not necessarily 100%.
Ingram was a huge question mark both as a player(remember, this is Ingram before the improved shooting, MIP season), and right around the blood clot scare.
Lonzo was a poor shooting point guard that was only so-so defensively. By all accounts he was a major bust.
Jrue was Jrue, but you arent building a core around him. Only person in the league that bought the Jrue is a superstar bullshite was Griff....And I dont think he really did either.
The rest you are basically selling them a mystery box. They know what they are getting at 2, but there is no guarantee they get another Morant with our picks or the Lakers.
Point is it's not that cut and dry. But it's also a pointless exercise because it would have been stupid on our part to essentially give away all our talent and assets for one rookie player as a small market.
This post was edited on 12/20/21 at 11:12 am
Posted on 12/20/21 at 11:31 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Proper interviews are the only thing that might have revealed Jaxson's attitude, lack of interest in being coached, poor work ethic, and boneheadedness.
he wasnt good enough to start at texas.
and his play in ncaas had tv analyst making excuses for him how he only recently switched from football.
it was the worst reach ever.
and because there are some ok guys who went after we must agree it was a desperate move to high ceiling the guy with quite possibly the lowest floor of any pick taken in round one ever.
Posted on 12/20/21 at 12:19 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:One part you're not factoring in is the massive salary outgoing.
They take it. %100. They be idiots not to.
Memphis would have to give up pieces they consider valuable just to make this even possible.
And also, Pels talk would have melted down if we made that deal lol.
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