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re: Is Jonas’ days numbered?
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:39 am to WicKed WayZ
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:39 am to WicKed WayZ
Yeah to a certain degree they are.
I'm quite sure that if the right deal came along for a guy that fits better they would take it.
If they hit on Wemby they likely keep him another year as a buffer.
Otherwise I am sure this offseason they will be actively hunting for deals for more of a rimprotector/stretch guy.
I'm quite sure that if the right deal came along for a guy that fits better they would take it.
If they hit on Wemby they likely keep him another year as a buffer.
Otherwise I am sure this offseason they will be actively hunting for deals for more of a rimprotector/stretch guy.
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Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:40 am to CP3forMVP
quote:
I’ve been pretty consistent in saying, to the disagreement of a lot of others, that he’s just a stop gap. A really good stop gap, but his future here is limited.
I think a lot depends on how comfortable Jonas is with a slightly reduced role and salary in the future. Everyone that wants to upgrade Jonas seems to not realize that the jump from Jonas to the center we all want is going from $15 million to $30+ million.
First, max centers aren't often available for trade/FA. Second, the Pels really shouldn't devote a max slot to a center in a wing league when they already have a max PF. I'm not saying I'd absolutely say no to Embid if things fell apart in Philly, but the top 2 guys for MVP the last 2 years have been Jokic and Embid and they haven't made it past the 2nd round.
That means the Pels need to draft and develop either an upgrade, or more likely a complimentary player to add to the center buy committee. If Jaxson had lived up to his potential we wouldn't be having this conversation. Matkovic seems to have a similar game to Jaxson, so hopefully in a year or 2 he can give us more than Jaxson has. And then there's the top 10 pick from the Lakers we're expecting this year.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:43 am to Bronc
quote:
I think we are starting to see why good teams like Memphis and Toronto eventually hit a wall with Jonas and decide to move on.
He's a nice floor raiser on up and coming teams, but if you are at the level of being a playoff team with an array of scorers, Jonas's price to performance to limitations ratio becomes a bit problematic, especially in a league that keeps getting more athletic, smaller, and versatile.
To me his long-term future here will come down to whether he is willing to take, say, a Nance-like salary and a role that isn't going to guarantee him more than 20mpg some nights, maybe not even always starting(and tbc, if we get that commitment, short of getting Wemby/Lively, I'd want him here).
So far we havent heard a peep of discontent, but the season is early who knows what it looks like in February if he is racking up a lot of sub 20mpg outings
I cant believe im agreeing with Bronc but this is right.
The tallest person left in the playoffs last year I believe was 6'10 in Horford or Timelord.
If we want a championship we need another rim running big.
JV makes 14m the next two years, DG makes 11. IF and I sincerely mean a big IF, there was an opportunity to get Turner and offer him a 2 year 50m extension, you essentially move the money into one guy from 2 and you dont harm the money aspect of the team.
People are way to emotional over JV and need to look at the facts. There are just not that many teams with Big Men that JV match up well with and now teams actively try to get him off the floor (quite easily too).
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:44 am to TigerinATL
We definitely don't need a max center.
As deals come up for all of our best players, we need to conserve money somewhere and Center is a good place to do it.
We just need to possibly find a better "fit"
As deals come up for all of our best players, we need to conserve money somewhere and Center is a good place to do it.
We just need to possibly find a better "fit"
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:58 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
We just need to possibly find a better "fit"
The thing is there is no better fit in our price range. Myles Turner is a bad rebounder. People see the holes he covers on the current team but don't see the holes he would open up.
As great as Larry was last night, he got out rebounded by Dyson. There are some games where we're going to need a JV type to go off for 30/17, and some games where we need a Nance to get just 19/7 while playing great defense. We need a 3rd guy that's somewhere in the middle, a good defender and rebounder with enough catch and dunk ability that he'll make you pay from the dunker's spot like Nance if you forget about him.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 8:59 am to Fun Bunch
I would like to say that I am still hopeful that we can ultimately be good with Zion at center for 10-15 minutes per game.
Zion's defense isn't where it needs to be for that to happen, but I still say that, in a year or two, that's how we close a lot of games.
Zion's defense isn't where it needs to be for that to happen, but I still say that, in a year or two, that's how we close a lot of games.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:04 am to TigerinATL
quote:
As great as Larry was last night, he got out rebounded by Dyson. There are some games where we're going to need a JV type to go off for 30/17, and some games where we need a Nance to get just 19/7 while playing great defense. We need a 3rd guy that's somewhere in the middle, a good defender and rebounder with enough catch and dunk ability that he'll make you pay from the dunker's spot like Nance if you forget about him.
Like a non retard version of Hayes.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:07 am to TigerinATL
quote:
The thing is there is no better fit in our price range. Myles Turner is a bad rebounder. People see the holes he covers on the current team but don't see the holes he would open up.
As great as Larry was last night, he got out rebounded by Dyson. There are some games where we're going to need a JV type to go off for 30/17, and some games where we need a Nance to get just 19/7 while playing great defense. We need a 3rd guy that's somewhere in the middle, a good defender and rebounder with enough catch and dunk ability that he'll make you pay from the dunker's spot like Nance if you forget about him.
You make it seem like its a huge hole...
Its currently not and also btw, look at that block comp.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:08 am to TigerinATL
quote:
People see the holes he covers on the current team but don't see the holes he would open up.
Right. Jaxson used to be playable at center because we also had Josh Hart to rebound. Hart's departure meant that Jaxson became almost exclusively a PF.
We actually played Dyson at center for a few minutes last night, and they worked. If Dyson turns out to be the elite rebounding guard that he appears to be, that could really open some lineups and opportunities.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:25 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think a lot depends on how comfortable Jonas is with a slightly reduced role and salary in the future. Everyone that wants to upgrade Jonas seems to not realize that the jump from Jonas to the center we all want is going from $15 million to $30+ million.
I think it’s the exact actually, a lot of the things that Jonas brings, the things this team needed when they acquired him, are now brought by guys that they have brought in within the last year or so.
To me, when the time is right, you can move on from Jonas to a guy that fits better, for a comparable salary. And likewise, there are probably already some guys on this roster that as they continue to progress, can fill some of that role at the 5.
I think it’s completely within the realm of possibility they could “downgrade” at the 5 to upgrade in other areas/skill sets.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:29 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
You make it seem like its a huge hole...
No, I'm saying it's a comparable sized hole to JVs holes.
3.5 more JV rebounds = 3.5 possessions ended.
3.5 more Turner blocks = 3.5 possessions ended.
My point isn't JV > Turner, it's JV ~ Turner, they just have different strengths and weaknesses. And you want to pay $10 million more per season for similar performance. Don't get me wrong, I understand the value of better fit, I just don't think the fit is as improved as you're thinking because of the rebounding deficiency.
Speaking of the rebounding difference, look at Turner's career rebounding numbers, not a small sample size that's way above his 8.4 career average per 36 and 2 above his previous career peak of 9.0.
We need a younger, cheaper Myles Turner to pair with JV/Nance, not an overpaid Turner to be a 30 MPG center.
This post was edited on 11/16/22 at 9:30 am
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:32 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Myles Turner is a bad rebounder. People see the holes he covers on the current team but don't see the holes he would open up.
I will defend Turner a bit here though. Since being the soul big man on his squad he's at 9RPG at 28min(11rpg per 36). Now Jonas is one of the best boarders in the league so unless you are replacing him with Anthony Davis or Clint Capella, chances are you are going to take a hit there(or need others to step up, hello Zion).
BUT, Turner is currently showing better numbers than several guys I dont think most would think twice about taking in and with little worry about the rebounding. Such as Bam, Embiid, or Ayton. Guys he's putting up better rebounding numbers than. Getting more box outs a game than guys like Poetl, Ayton, Embiid, Capela, and Sabonis.
So it's not all bad.
And the big thing is that he can better close games. Jonas's rebounding doesnt do much for you in the clutch if he's on the bench.
And Nance isn't the greatest either but we seem to make up the difference when we need to.
So I wouldnt let that stop me....Though I also dont think Turner is the perfect solution either(if that person even exists or is gettable)
This post was edited on 11/16/22 at 9:34 am
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:36 am to TigerinATL
quote:
it's JV ~ Turner
On any other team not named Pelicans SURE.
But on Pelicans, the biggest thing is Turner doesnt play in the same area as Zion. Running Bigs dont grow on trees and we have a shot at one in June.
Im not hating on JV by any means, he contributes in a lot of ways, but the biggest issue right now is he operates in the same space as our franchise star. That simply can't continue if we want to win Championships.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 9:57 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think a lot depends on how comfortable Jonas is with a slightly reduced role and salary in the future. Everyone that wants to upgrade Jonas seems to not realize that the jump from Jonas to the center we all want is going from $15 million to $30+ million.
Agree on reduced role and salary. I love JVal as a player but I love even more how he’s embraced the city and organization. But right now he’s making a little too much. I think we can find someone who is maybe a slight downgrade in rebounding because let’s be honest Jonas is a GREAT rebounder and a slight downgrade in offense for someone who is athletic and plays good D. With CJ, Zion and BI, we have enough offense. We need a Kevon Looney/Robert Williams type. We don’t need a center that makes $30 million. We just need someone with length who is athletic, plays good D and isn’t a complete liability offensively
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:03 am to WicKed WayZ
Jonas can have the touch of a rapist around the rim at times, but he’s a key piece.
There are players around the league that would be a better fit than Jonas, but he’s what we got.
There are players around the league that would be a better fit than Jonas, but he’s what we got.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:15 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
His days were “numbered” when he was exposed in the Phoenix series.
He’s fine, they’re just going to be more selective with his minutes
Yeah he is what he is, and he's paid comparably. He's not making like $30-40M a year for a reason.
People this offseason were talking Mo Bamba for $10M/year just for comparing potential replacement.s
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:17 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
Its currently not and also btw, look at that block comp.
I've been on the Myles Turner pain train for like 3 years now, but he's too expensive. The best part about Turner was his contract.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:19 am to BigPerm30
quote:
This is a great take. We are playing a different style and he doesn’t fit.
Does Zion even really fit? He's actually not that far from a Jonas archetype. A bunch of the same -predomninantly defensive - liabilities
This post was edited on 11/16/22 at 10:21 am
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:24 am to WicKed WayZ
Yeah I don't get the Jonas hate. At all.
Obviously yes, we would all like Jonas to be better, but the minutes played isn't bad news because:
A) Like someone mentioned earlier, he played a ton last year without Zion and wore down at the end of the year. Dude is 30+ years old and I'd rather him fresh
B) We have a great back up in Nance where if Jonas isn't playing well and/or based on match ups, we can rely on Nance to pick things up.
Also like someone else said earlier, these perfect great offensive, defensive, plays inside and outside centers don't grow on fricking trees. There are very very very few players who can do it on both ends. Only one I can think of is Embiid and Giannis (not a center I know). Having a tandem if Jonas and Nance is more than capable.
Obviously yes, we would all like Jonas to be better, but the minutes played isn't bad news because:
A) Like someone mentioned earlier, he played a ton last year without Zion and wore down at the end of the year. Dude is 30+ years old and I'd rather him fresh
B) We have a great back up in Nance where if Jonas isn't playing well and/or based on match ups, we can rely on Nance to pick things up.
Also like someone else said earlier, these perfect great offensive, defensive, plays inside and outside centers don't grow on fricking trees. There are very very very few players who can do it on both ends. Only one I can think of is Embiid and Giannis (not a center I know). Having a tandem if Jonas and Nance is more than capable.
Posted on 11/16/22 at 10:31 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:I don't really get why we're pitting Nance vs Jonas. They have 2 very different skillset, so it's great to have both guys on the team to log more minutes when the game calls for it. It's a nice luxury to have.
And it’s hard to argue with how well Larry Nance has played lately
Nance is awesome, has been fantastic this season. You don't want him to be your full time center logging 35 minutes a game. That just won't work. We would struggle mightily rebounding, among other things.
I think it's fantastic having both and playing every single game to fit our strengths with the minutes for each guy.
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