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re: I’m done.
Posted on 2/6/18 at 5:29 pm to NOFOX
Posted on 2/6/18 at 5:29 pm to NOFOX
quote:
I think if you give Pop, Spo, Snyder, Kerr, Carlisle and maybe Atkinson
Where are you getting the next one of those coaches though? This is almost a year old now, but last year Kevin Arnovitz came out with a HC prospect list. LINK
Ettore Messina - I would have been willing to try him to start this year, but like I said, I don't think you want to make significant changes and potentially make Boogie start from ground zero on system trust and buy in.
Jerry Stackhouse - Who is doing great things...in the Gleague
Darvin Ham - Career backup in the NBA, assistant to Budenholzer
Brent Barry - Apparently not interested right now but made the list anyway.
Chris Fleming - His resume doesn't seem all that different from Finch's
Of those 4 Darvin Ham is the only one that seems like a potential fit. He's got the modern NBA credentials working for Bud, and he has a record for being brutally honest like Monty did so maybe he would be a better motivator than Uncle Al.
quote:
Ham plays an enormous role with the Hawks and does it without a lot of rah-rah battle cries. He understands the difference between pride and passion, ego and intelligence, and can tell a player -- be it a vet like Dwight Howard or a young guy like Dennis Schroder -- the truth even if it isn't what he wants to hear. He knows that you prepare a reliable vet if he's going to be the whipping boy in a film session, but that you probably don't do the same for a rookie, because you want to see how he's going to react.
2
Posted on 2/6/18 at 5:37 pm to NOFOX
NBA.com has Pels at 102 and the slowest pace at 96. tomato, tomahto
agree 100%. not sure what other options they have to maximize the talent, but that is not an excuse to grind the franchise pillars into dust. definitely agree the entire franchise, players and coaches on up should have been more aware of hazard for Cousins/Davis/Holiday and either limited minutes or change strategy
we obviously dont know everything. i'd like to give the team the benefit of the doubt here, but the track record of taking care of players has been spotty
quote:
ust mainly saying the combination of fast pace and huge minutes is problematic
agree 100%. not sure what other options they have to maximize the talent, but that is not an excuse to grind the franchise pillars into dust. definitely agree the entire franchise, players and coaches on up should have been more aware of hazard for Cousins/Davis/Holiday and either limited minutes or change strategy
we obviously dont know everything. i'd like to give the team the benefit of the doubt here, but the track record of taking care of players has been spotty
Posted on 2/6/18 at 6:01 pm to corndeaux
This kind of sucks but my opinion changed with the Boogie injury. I want Gentry and this staff back to assimilate Boogie back into the fold considering the injury he is coming off of. Now if Finch leaves, do whatever you want with Gentry. If you can bring back all three though I want to give Boogie the most comfortable setting to re-find his game as possible. That setting is continuity and familiarity imo.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 12:00 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 2/7/18 at 9:58 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Where are you getting the next one of those coaches though? This is almost a year old now, but last year Kevin Arnovitz came out with a HC prospect list. LINK
I don't know enough about coaching prospects to say and that is only one of many reasons why I am not a GM. However, I know it keeps getting mentioned that is difficult to find these type of coaches, but these guys are not exceedingly rare: Kerr, Stephens, Snyder, Atkinson, and Bud were all hired in the last 5 years. (Hell we should have had Atkinson in the first place and we may even have that type of coach on the roster now). It is a gamble, but so is continuing on with Gentry and hoping things work out. That risk gets amplified if Finch is offered a HC posiiton.
I think Dell will strongly consider changing coaches (not picking up Gentry's option) if he can do so while resigning Boogie. I just don't know if he will still believe in Gentry after this season with his job firmly on the line. There will also need to be a sacrifical lamb if we miss the playoffs again.
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 9:59 am
Posted on 2/7/18 at 10:24 am to NOFOX
quote:
these guys are not exceedingly rare: Kerr, Stephens, Snyder, Atkinson, and Bud were all hired in the last 5 years.
But those are all first time HCs which would seem to go against the likely criteria. I do find Finch intriguing. His "modern NBA" credentials are as good as anyone's, he's got HC experience at multiple stops in Europe, he seems to have gotten buy in from the team, something Gentry never accomplished before, and most importantly Boogie was starting to trust his system.
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 10:25 am
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:16 am to TigerinATL
quote:
But those are all first time HCs which would seem to go against the likely criteria.
The point is Dell's job is on the line. If he thinks a first year coach 9with HC experience in europe or G league) is this roster's best shot, then he needs to convince Ferry and ownership of that path. D'Antoni, Thibs, and even McMillian to an extent are recent hires showing retreads can work too.
It is going to be interesting to see what we do if another team shows interest in Finch. He is on all of those NBA coaching candidates lists and as you said has an impressive resume. Could letting Gentry go and promoting Finch provide us with the continuity to keep Boogie while also providing the tweak in philosophy/culture/approach that Dell may think is necessary. I actually think that may be the most likely path, but again I have no idea internally how the players/management view Finch and what his responsibilties have been this summer.
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 11:17 am
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:20 am to NOFOX
quote:
mentioned that is difficult to find these type of coaches, but these guys are not exceedingly rare: Kerr, Stephens, Snyder, Atkinson, and Bud were all hired in the last 5 years
recently hired good coaches dont prove that anyone can find a good one now. and lumping Bud, Atkinson, and Snyder in with Kerr/Stevens is a bit much. dont get me wrong, i would take those 3 over Gentry, but they are by no means guaranteed home runs.
i do think coaching quality is higher than before and taking a bet on a new coach is fine with me
but i certainly dont trust Demps or ownership to have the same process in place that those teams had to identify and hire those coaches. which is a problem given Davis and Cousins contract situations
the unaddressed issue in all of this is that fans will still bitch about coaching every time something goes wrong, regardless of the coach. at some point, people need to accept that there is no perfect coach out there. some guys are definitely better and some worse, but every coach will frick something up almost every night
Posted on 2/7/18 at 11:54 am to corndeaux
quote:
the unaddressed issue in all of this is that fans will still bitch about coaching every time something goes wrong, regardless of the coach. at some point, people need to accept that there is no perfect coach out there. some guys are definitely better and some worse, but every coach will frick something up almost every night
I do not care about fan bitching. I care about retaining AD by progressing to a serious playoff team. I question whether Gentry is the coach to make that happen and I think Dell will do the same at season's end especially if there is outside interest in poaching Finch. Previous reports suggested Dell had remorse in the Gentry hire. Dell then brought in Finch as "OC" despite installing offensive systems being Gentry's forte. While he takes way more shite than he deserves, no one thinks he has done a great job. Gentry is not owed anything past this season and if you are going to make a coaching change to save AD then it needs to be done this offseason not next (assuming Boogie/AD are okay with it).
The roster can only be tweaked so much now. Coaching can be. If you think the roster is flawed and a new coach wouldn't change anything, then no loss as Gentry is limited by the flawed roster and will be fired next year anyhow. If you think Gentry just has bad luck and a new coach would be worse, then that's a different story, but I am starting to believe Dell does not hold that opinion and is going to sacrifice Gentry if he can without upsetting AD/Boogie too much.
If you are concerned that AD/Boogie will be upset, maybe we even just promote Finch to keep continuity and make any change more acceptable to them if they are pro-Gentry. A coaching change obviously does not solve all of the team's or player's issues, but it may solve some. I also fear there is a real risk of regression if Finch leaves.
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 11:57 am
Posted on 2/7/18 at 3:41 pm to NOFOX
quote:
Previous reports suggested Dell had remorse in the Gentry hire
what were those reports?
eta- regression point is a good one and why i'm leery of firing Gentry. if they retain Finch/Erman, that's different. but building around 2 dominant big men isn't easy. they have the seeds of something that can work in the schemes this staff has put out there
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 2/7/18 at 3:49 pm to corndeaux
quote:
what were those reports?
Around the end of the season 2016 season, Woj reported that that Dell "spent way too much of this year second-guessing his own hire as a head coach – often in very public ways within earshot of players, staff and even opponents."
Dell had to come out and deny the reports.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 3:57 pm to corndeaux
quote:
building around 2 dominant big men isn't easy. they have the seeds of something that can work in the schemes this staff has put out there
Last year's AD Small Ball team was just starting to gel around this time in the season and then the Cousins trade happened and blew all that progress up. This year's AD/DC was just starting to gel around the same time when Boogie's Achilles blew up. It's going to be hard enough bringing Boogie back on a minutes restriction and in a reduced capacity, the last thing they need is another scheme change.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 4:14 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
the last thing they need is another scheme change.
Those scheme changes also involved a lot of roster turnover...loss of Ryno/Gordon, addition of Buddy, Etwaun, Solo, loss of Buddy/Evans, addition of Cousins, Rondo...etc.
If you pick Gentry now, you are committing to him next year too because next year is too late to make a change unless we are blowing it up (or a very small chance of a Callipari in case of fire break glass hire). You can implement a scheme change this year with the hope of really ramping up mid year and carrying momentum into the playoffs which will carry over into AD's walk year. I don't think you have the luxury of a scheme change if you start in AD's walk year.
The best course of action may just be to pick up the option on Gentry and hope for health, but if Finch is poached, then that plan is probably off the table for me.
Posted on 2/7/18 at 4:19 pm to macatak911
I do not understand how in the frick Demps, Benson, or ANYONE (Loomis... all those dudes) do not see how fricking terrible Gentry is
I know Benson is braindead but even a braindead person can see this team is a disaster
I know Benson is braindead but even a braindead person can see this team is a disaster
This post was edited on 2/7/18 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 2/7/18 at 8:08 pm to NOFOX
quote:
addition of Buddy, Etwaun, Solo
they were in a mini-rebuild last year until they got Cousins, which you have to do every time. that version of the team was likely not going to last because they had to have a 5 for Davis, but from XMas-ASB they played decent ball.
quote:
You can implement a scheme change this year with the hope of really ramping up mid year and carrying momentum into the playoffs
that is quite drastic
no one knows if Cousins will be on the team next year, much less what he will be able to do and when he will be able to do it. changing coaches/schemes in the middle of the season w/ Cousins ??? and the Pels still very much in playoff contention is a bit much for me, barring some sort of team mutiny
unless they are just promoting Erman/Finch, not sure there is anyone they could possibly grab right now anyway
Posted on 2/8/18 at 6:30 am to corndeaux
With reference to Buddy and Solo, I just meant the gelling after implementing a new system may have taken longer because they were also incorporating several new starters.
Sorry, poor word choice there. I have always been against a mid season change. I meant this year as in this upcoming 2018 offseason. This offseason you have the ability to bring in a new coach, implement a new system, and have it gel by mid season to carry momentum into the playoffs. I don’t think you can do that the following season in AD’s walk yea, it would be too late.
quote:
that is quite drastic
Sorry, poor word choice there. I have always been against a mid season change. I meant this year as in this upcoming 2018 offseason. This offseason you have the ability to bring in a new coach, implement a new system, and have it gel by mid season to carry momentum into the playoffs. I don’t think you can do that the following season in AD’s walk yea, it would be too late.
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