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TeddyPadillac
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
11442 posts
 Online 

re: I’m done.
quote:

People focus on all the bad and can't see any of the good.


the bad has always been Gentry. We have A LOT of history that says that. The good was adding a top 10 NBA talent to the team. It took some time, just like in OKC, but don't act like Gentry all of a sudden became a good coach when he's shown you over a decade of mediocrity. Don't mistake two top 10-15 players on the same team, playing with top 50 guy having a career year, coupled with 2 role players drilling 3's at over 40%, as good coaching.



NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

See that's a good question and actual critical thinking. That sample size WAS small with relatively good health, but you don't just add superstars and hit the ground running typically. Look at Miami their first season with the big 3. We were starting to become cohesive around that exact same timeframe that they were turning the corner. People were bitching non stop about Spoelstra too.


Working out the kinks with Boogie/AD was always going to take some time. I think the two big reasons Gentry is not given as much credit for the team appearing to have gelled is (1) small sample size and the minutes were not sustainable and (2) the narrative that Finch was brought in to make the Boogie/AD pairing work - OC narrative.

We as fans do not have much insight into who should be given credit on the coaching staff for success in different areas, but there is at least a question of what percentage of the offensive improvement/player development is owed to Finch versus Gentry considering the OC narrative and how would the staff perform losing him?
This post was edited on 2/6 at 4:38 pm


ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
8846 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

Don't mistake two top 10-15 players on the same team, playing with top 50 guy having a career year, coupled with 2 role players drilling 3's at over 40%, as good coaching.


Wait, so the fact that Gentry and co. devised a system around two modern NBA centers in this NBA climate, got a career year out of someone playing 3rd banana who looked like his best days were left in Philly, and managed to get Moore/Miller the looks and confidence to shoot that well means nothing? There's two ways of looking at it.


TeddyPadillac
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
11442 posts
 Online 

re: I’m done.
quote:

Beating a struggling OKC team (ironically similar to our situation to start the season) and a Kawhi-less Spurs vs. beating Boston on the road and a Rockets team with CP3, Harden, and Capela. They're not even comparable.



the point is they had won 8 of 11. Doesn't matter who it was against. They were playing good. Then they lost 8 of 11.

who's to say the stretch they just had wasn't going to come back down to earth and they would lose 6 of the next 10? It's been the theme of this franchise.


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ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
8846 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

We as fans do not have much insight into who should be given credit on the coaching staff for success in different areas, but there is at least a question of what percentage of the offensive improvement/player development is owed to Finch versus Gentry considering the OC narrative and how would the staff perform losing him?


Even giving Finch the credit. They hired Finch, and Gentry stepped aside to let Finch do his job. I'm not defending the guy. I think he's towards the bottom of the middle tier. I just don't think he's OMG DUMPSTER FIRE like many here.

And this board was praising Monty Williams. I mean, that should say everything about the average IQ. Monty Williams is Alvin Gentry with an ego. THAT is OMG DUMPSTER FIRE bottom tier.


TeddyPadillac
LSU Fan
Member since Dec 2010
11442 posts
 Online 

re: I’m done.
It doesn't mean nothing. Just don't act like Gentry is all of a sudden a good coach. He's not. He's never been. Never will be. Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to coach at all. Of course he's done some good things.

Do you think if Gentry and Spoelstra traded teams, the Pels and Heat would look similar in the standings as they are now? The Pels are obviously far more talented than the Heat, and talent is what wins in the NBA more often than not. It isn't hard to coach to victories when you are more talented than your opponent. We've seen tons of examples of that over many years.


ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
8846 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

It doesn't mean nothing. Just don't act like Gentry is all of a sudden a good coach. He's not. He's never been. Never will be. Doesn't mean he doesn't know how to coach at all. Of course he's done some good things.


I have steadfastly maintained all season the same opinion I've stated above. I'd put him somewhere in the 20-22ish rank. That is definitely NO BUENO and certainly nothing to get excited about. I just have more faith in Finch and Erman over time to figure this thing out and think it really sucks we got cut short when their systems were starting to overcome Gentry's deficiencies.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8754 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

The Pels are obviously far more talented than the Heat,


Shameless, these are the takes that I don't understand


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8754 posts

re: I’m done.
Same thing with this

quote:

minutes were not sustainable


either it's a talented enough roster that doesn't need to ride Davis/Cousins to 50 wins

or it's a thin roster bolstered by two guys having 1st team all NBA type seasons.

I'm firmly in option B. MAYBE a Stevens or Pop can pull A off with this roster. I wouldn't bet on it though


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

that's an ownership/franchise problem. if the message is that Gentry needs to make the playoffs to keep his job, then he's going to ride his thin roster,if they let him, to stay employed


It is a team problem. We need to win. We need to consistently make the playoffs and prove that we are progressing towards at least dark horse contender status or we lose our star. If Gentry can not accomplish that without killing the big guys in minutes/pace, then he may not be the right fit and should be replaced.

quote:

it looked like they had unlocked the potential until Cousins went down.


Depends on what you see the potential of this team being? It looked like we were progressing, but again is that sustainable while giving them a little more rest?

quote:

I get the unsustainable critique. but it can't go both ways- either the roster is good enough to hit 50 wins/top 4 seed by limiting Davis/Cousins to more modern mp or it was a flawed, top heavy roster propped up by two guys having all NBA seasons


I said whether it is a roster construction or a coaching issue, it is a problem. AD/Boogie/Jrue were/are all playing the highest minutes per game of their careers while also playing at the fastest pace of their careers. I believe there are coaches who could take this roster to 50 wins/top 4 seed while limiting the minutes/pace of the bigs. Maybe Gentry can accomplish that with a fully healthy squad + Mirotic, but I don't know that.



TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
48420 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

The good was adding a top 10 NBA talent to the team.


The good was also Finch IMO.

quote:

It took some time


Boogie had gotten incrementally better regarding his bad habits leading up to the week or so before the injury where he seemed to be in a really good place. People wanted to call him selfish and lazy, and maybe those were somewhat accurate, but I think what had him turning the corner was he was finally starting to trust the system and his teammates. Starting to believe in playing "boring" basketball.

I don't think the next coach can or should come in and change up much on offense and potentially lose Boogie's buy in. The new coach would need to be able to motivate these players better than Uncle Al has though. You need a coach who is an easy sell to AD/DC and is either already aligned with or ready to adopt the modern NBA offense. I also think you don't want a first time coach, or if they are just an assistant they need to be well traveled and well regarded like Thibs/Brett Brown/Bud/Atkinson.


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NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

Even giving Finch the credit. They hired Finch, and Gentry stepped aside to let Finch do his job. I'm not defending the guy. I think he's towards the bottom of the middle tier. I just don't think he's OMG DUMPSTER FIRE like many here.


I don't think Gentry is a dumpster fire like many here do and I want no part of Monty. I do believe Gentry is an average coach (like Monty) and if I were Dell with my job on the line next season, I might want to take a gamble on trying hire an above average coach.

For me, it all boils down to this in the offseason: do we trust Gentry to take us the 2nd round next season? I believe that AD's future here depends on that.


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8754 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

If Gentry can not accomplish that without killing the big guys in minutes/pace, then he may not be the right fit and should be replaced.


By ownership. As I said. Or maybe there could be structures in place to protect the two most valuable parts of the franchise. Again, that needs to come from higher up than the coach's office.

quote:

believe there are coaches who could take this roster to 50 wins/top 4 seed while limiting the minutes/pace of the bigs


I agree. But how many? How available are they?

Also not sure about the pace critique. I get the wear and tear part, but the Pels and the bigs play better at faster pace.

Now maybe we can say the roster is thin, so slow the pace down, especially when the bigs are sitting. Drives me nuts when they get into track meets w/ neither big on the floor. I think that is good, fair criticism of the coaching.

ETA- also wonder what effect, if any, getting rid of 2nd/4th after 9 TOs has had on conditioning
This post was edited on 2/6 at 5:11 pm


ShamelessPel
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Metairie
Member since Apr 2013
8846 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

either it's a talented enough roster that doesn't need to ride Davis/Cousins to 50 wins

or it's a thin roster bolstered by two guys having 1st team all NBA type seasons.

I'm firmly in option B. MAYBE a Stevens or Pop can pull A off with this roster. I wouldn't bet on it though


Our backup big (Dante Cunningham) is bottom 10% tier in Rebound Rate. Our backup SF (Darius Miller) is DEAD LAST in rebound rate. Those are the 2 largest (height wise) rotational players that we used this season after Davis and Cousins. That's fricking pathetic. One can argue that Gentry should have used Asik more (I would actually argue that myself to people even pre-injury), but you also have to realize you're arguing that Gentry has to use OMER FREAKING ASIK MORE!


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8754 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

backup big (Dante Cunningham) is bottom 10% tier in Rebound Rate. Our backup SF (Darius Miller) is DEAD LAST in rebound rate.


quote:

you also have to realize you're arguing that Gentry has to use OMER FREAKING ASIK MORE


#doitbig


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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
48420 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

there is at least a question of what percentage of the offensive improvement/player development is owed to Finch versus Gentry considering the OC narrative and how would the staff perform losing him?


What Finch wants to do isn't that different than what Gentry wants to do. The difference is last year, Gentry's 2nd year implementing his system, you rarely saw the kind of ball and player movement we've seen this year. Maybe Rondo deserves some credit too, but after 2 years the Gentry Pelicans didn't look any more free flowing on offense than the Monty Pelicans. After the addition of Finch and Rondo, they look like a modern NBA team for about 24 minutes a game.


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NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

I'm firmly in option B. MAYBE a Stevens or Pop can pull A off with this roster. I wouldn't bet on it though


I think if you give Pop, Spo, Snyder, Kerr, Carlisle and maybe Atkinson this year's roster and said make the playoffs while keeping Jrue/Boogie/AD to ~33 minutes at around 95 posessions per 48, they could do it.

I think if you add Mirotic and Solo next season, they can give you a 50 wins/top 4 seed.


corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
8754 posts

re: I’m done.
good call on Atkinson. i'd add Bud to that list too. the Hawks are awful, but they are well coached

but this is sort of the rub with the roster- they need a top 5 coach in the league to pull off playing at a pace no one is playing at any more to make the playoffs and hit 50 wins w/ prime Davis and Cousins.

this message will self destruct in 5 seconds....


NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

By ownership. As I said. Or maybe there could be structures in place to protect the two most valuable parts of the franchise. Again, that needs to come from higher up than the coach's office.



Under this construct, the coach should know not to play his most valuable players unsustainable minutes less one of them gets hurt and he misses the playoffs and gets fired. I think someone in management should have also told him to pull back the pace/minutes a bit or at least warned him, but we don't know if that happened or not.

quote:

I agree. But how many? How available are they?



What I am saying is that if you don't thinkGentry can do that, then you take the gamble of trying to find the next coach who can.

quote:

Also not sure about the pace critique. I get the wear and tear part, but the Pels and the bigs play better at faster pace.


Faster pace + more minutes = more possessions = more wear and tear. Slow down the bigs or give them more of a break. They are getting worn out and then criticized for being tired.


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NOFOX
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
6200 posts

re: I’m done.
quote:

to pull off playing at a pace no one is playing at any more to make the playoffs and hit 50 wins


Just to clarify, I am not sure what pace metric NBA uses, but basketball reference has us 3rd in pace at 99.6 possessions per 48 minutes. Dropping back to 95 per 48 would put us in Wolves, Bucks, Jazz, Mavs, Heat, Spurs pace territory.

And I am not even advocating a slower pace, just mainly saying the combination of fast pace and huge minutes is problematic.
This post was edited on 2/6 at 5:28 pm


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