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re: Griff: BI is "mechanically incapable" of being traded under the new CBA rules
Posted on 7/17/24 at 2:06 pm to brmark70816
Posted on 7/17/24 at 2:06 pm to brmark70816
quote:
IMO, if Brown demanded a trade and Celtics dangled him, there would be a bidding war, even with that contract.
Gotta disagree...he is entering his 5/285mil contract (57mil avg) which is the 2nd highest AAV in the league to only Tatum.
He was Finals MVP, but that team was built so damn well these past 2 years everyone is envious. He put up 20/5/5 and shot 44/24/73 with one game only scoring 10 points. He's not an elite player in the mold of SGA, Luka, or Jokic.
I think there's a market, but those numbers are beyond insane. Which is why paying Ingram 50mil+ is a mistake like Washington had made with Beal.
1
Posted on 7/17/24 at 4:56 pm to htran90
If Brown is your #1, you're likely not making the playoffs in the West. Maybe the play in if you've got a solid 2/3
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 5:54 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Brown is your #1, you're likely not making the playoffs in the West. Maybe the play in if you've got a solid 2/3
This is an odd stance. Brown is more accomplished and well-rounded than Zion, who we are pinning all of our hopes. By any measure they are on the same level. Yet Brown has little chance of leading a team to the playoffs? That doesn't make sense.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 7:53 pm to brmark70816
quote:
This is an odd stance. Brown is more accomplished and well-rounded than Zion, who we are pinning all of our hopes. By any measure they are on the same level. Yet Brown has little chance of leading a team to the playoffs? That doesn't make sense.
C’mon man, anyone with two eyes can see that Zion is a more talented player than Brown. Now, does he have limitations due to injuries, of course. But if you were promised health on both players, the vast majority of GMs would choose Zion.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 8:14 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:
the vast majority of GMs would choose Zion.
It's an interesting debate. Do you believe the Celtics would take Zion straight up for Brown?
Posted on 7/17/24 at 8:17 pm to brmark70816
quote:
It's an interesting debate. Do you believe the Celtics would take Zion straight up for Brown?
At this point? Probably not, but they already won with Brown. I was referring to a hypothetical world where injuries aren’t an issue. Brown has that over Zion, but overall Brown is not a “special” player. He’s good, he’s not a number 1.
A ceiling for a player like Brown is Paul George.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 8:24 pm to Epic Cajun
If you poll coaches, availability trumps talent. This is a big reason for BI’s predicament. Zion is even less available, while Tatum and Brown who I view as lesser combined talents than Husky and Slim are workhorses.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 8:54 pm to Pistol44
I know it sounds stupid, but the top end talent of Boston’s roster wasn’t impressive.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 8:59 pm to Pistol44
The fun part about this discussion is I've gone and looked at Zion vs Brown's stats (for this past.season), and they are eerily similar. They are almost identical, except a couple small differences. I had no idea..
Posted on 7/18/24 at 6:49 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
the top end talent of Boston’s roster wasn’t impressive.
It's true. This was the first title in a very long time that didn't feature someone who was arguably a top-5 player.
Tatum is somewhere #8-15. Brown and Porzingis are somewhere in the #25-40 range. Jrue and White are somewhere in the #50-75 area.
The Celtics won as a team, not as a couple of stars surrounding by supporting pieces.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 7:27 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Tatum is somewhere #8-15. Brown and Porzingis are somewhere in the #25-40 range. Jrue and White are somewhere in the #50-75 area.
It's a loaded team. 5 players that are legit top 50ish. That's crazy balance and what every team should thrive to accomplish.
Small quibble. I'd go Tatum top 10. Brown top 20. Holiday and White top 50. I think Porzingis is a borderline top 50 guy, probably more like top 75 or so.
Also, their bench doesn't get the praise it deserves. Very functional with smart role players. It's just super smart roster construction.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 7:44 am to brmark70816
I think y'all are underrating Tatum.
Moving him from 5-10 puts him behind guys like
Old Durant
Old Curry
Ant Edwards
Ant Davis
I don't think you can honestly argue these 4 are better than Tatum today
Then you have Embiid. Meh. Too hurt and is worse at the only thing people criticize Tatum for ("disappearing in the playoffs")
Moving him from 5-10 puts him behind guys like
Old Durant
Old Curry
Ant Edwards
Ant Davis
I don't think you can honestly argue these 4 are better than Tatum today
Then you have Embiid. Meh. Too hurt and is worse at the only thing people criticize Tatum for ("disappearing in the playoffs")
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:30 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't think you can honestly argue these 4 are better than Tatum today
I think he's in the same tier with Ant, Toni, Booker
IMO he's definitely behind:
Jokic
Luka
Giannis
SGA
Curry
Durant
It's hard to judge players like Embiid who are also better than Tatum in a vacuum where injuries don't exist, but he always finds a way to get hurt.
Brown is massively overrated right now. The Ringer has him ranked 15th which is hilarious even for a website owned by a Boston Homer. Same with having White and Jrue ranked in the 30's, c'mon
ETA: Curry and Durant are old and can fall off at any time, but IMO last season they were better than Tatum.
This post was edited on 7/18/24 at 8:33 am
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:36 am to SlowFlowPro
Jokic
Doncic
SGA
Giannis
ANT
Tatum
Haliburton
Victor
Embid
Sabonis
AD
Booker
Steph
KD
Zion
Maxey
Mitchell
Brunson
Kyrie
Brown
Young
Fox
KAT
Bridges
Siakam
Sengun
Chet
Banchero
PG
Jamal Murray
Dejante Murray
Bam
JJJ
Gobert
Butler
Dame
Kawhi
Rough top 37 in order if they did a redraft today. Opinions?
Doncic
SGA
Giannis
ANT
Tatum
Haliburton
Victor
Embid
Sabonis
AD
Booker
Steph
KD
Zion
Maxey
Mitchell
Brunson
Kyrie
Brown
Young
Fox
KAT
Bridges
Siakam
Sengun
Chet
Banchero
PG
Jamal Murray
Dejante Murray
Bam
JJJ
Gobert
Butler
Dame
Kawhi
Rough top 37 in order if they did a redraft today. Opinions?
This post was edited on 7/18/24 at 8:54 am
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:38 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Curry
Durant
Why? Especially Durant. Look at their stats and remember Tatum is a LOT better on D than either of them.
quote:
Brown is massively overrated right now.
I agree with this. That's why I said he's a scaled BI. Better than BI but a lot more expensive to account for that.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:42 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Opinions?
Sabonis is way too high
I don't see how you can put Ant over Tatum today. I know he's got the buzz, but Tatum is probably better at literally everything. In an actual draft, Ant would go before him b/c of age, not play.
And if you're doing a pure redraft rankings, Wemby is probably a safe #1 and Durant is waaaay lower.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why? Especially Durant. Look at their stats and remember Tatum is a LOT better on D than either of them.
I just trust them both more than Tatum. If you swap Tatum with either of them on that Boston team, they still win the title.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Sabonis is way too high
I don't see how you can put Ant over Tatum today. I know he's got the buzz, but Tatum is probably better at literally everything. In an actual draft, Ant would go before him b/c of age, not play.
And if you're doing a pure redraft rankings, Wemby is probably a safe #1 and Durant is waaaay lower.
Sabonis was my wild card honestly. Dude pretty much averages a triple double. I think he deserves to be up there if we are talking re draft and Embid/ AD are in similar spots.
The ANT vs Tatum is 100% future based on this redraft. But Tatum has the edge now of course.
Durant I don't necessarily disagree but will teams pass him up for Brunson, Mitchell, etch? It is why I kinda made a separate spot for Steph/ KD and excluded Lebron.
Will teams pick Wemby over the guys in front of him? I slid him over but there's an argument for every guy in front of him.
This post was edited on 7/18/24 at 8:52 am
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:48 am to Dantheman504
I'm going to pretend that this re-draft is only for next season, because if it's just going forward it will be completely skewed by age.
I'm a LeBron hater, but I think he'd go in the top 37
Sabonis is way too high.
Maxey is way too high.
Brown is too high.
Banchero is too low.
Bridges is way too high.
Kawhi is too low.
Butler is too low.
I'm a LeBron hater, but I think he'd go in the top 37
Sabonis is way too high.
Maxey is way too high.
Brown is too high.
Banchero is too low.
Bridges is way too high.
Kawhi is too low.
Butler is too low.
Posted on 7/18/24 at 8:57 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Sabonis is way too high.
Maxey is way too high.
Brown is too high.
Banchero is too low.
Bridges is way too high.
Kawhi is too low.
Butler is too low.
Who would you put behind Butler/ Kawhi/ Banchero?
Who would you put in front of Maxey/ Brown/ Bridges/ Sabonis?
I slid Wemby/ Maxey because I agree after looking at it. I don't see much more movement.
Obviously there's (3) outliers in Steph/ KD/ Lebron and they skew whichever top group you pick
This post was edited on 7/18/24 at 9:00 am
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