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Game 2 Series Stats and Observations
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:47 am
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:47 am
What a disgusting game.
We can't shoot, and our defense is pathetic.
We all love Jose, but it's been two bad games for him. He's got the worse +/- in both games. I can live with that though. He's not a guy I expect to be the difference maker in every game.
Jose is 1-7 from 3 and 1-5 in the paint this series.
If there's one thing that pissed me off more than anything last night, it was the walking around all the time by BI. Guy looked disinterested in playing basketball last night. He actually had a really good 3rd quarter, and picked it up defensively that quarter as well, but you can't play hard for 25% of the game, and like you don't give a shite the other 3/4 of the game.
He's 0-2 from 3 through 2 games.
He's 8-21 for 38% from the mid range. He's 4-4 from the area right at the FT line and below. That is his spot on the court, and where more plays should drawn up to get him the ball at, and where he should work off the dribble to get to.
He's only attempted 4 shots at the rim, making 2.
He's 10-10 from the FT line.
He has 30 points on 27 attempts.
He rarely was able to get Dort off of him through screens, and the reason for that is b/c BI played like a 10 year old and rarely ever waited for the screen to actually get set, which is also why we had several moving screens called on us. You can't take off dribbling before the screen gets there. that's taught in middle school.
CJ is 3-14 for 21% from 3 through 2 games.
He's 9-18 for 50% from min range.
He's 3-4 at the rim.
He's attempted 2 FT's in 2 games.
He has 35 points on 36 attempts.
Both BI and CJ have been downright terrible on offense.
As a team, we are 5-26 for 19% on corner 3's, which i'd bet almost every single one of them was an open shot. We aren't beating anyone with the way we are shooting from 3. And it's not like we are taking bad shots. They are open shots from guys that can shoot, we just can't make them.
We are 18-65 for 28% through 2 games. Doesn't matter what our plan on offense is, if we can't hit open 3's then we have no shot at winning.
JV dominated Chet when he was in the game offensively, and we didn't go to him enough. The fact that Chet had 4 fouls in the 3rd quarter and Willie took JV out of the game is a fireable offense. The run we made in the 2nd quarter was when we got Chet out of the game and we were able to get to the rim more. Instead, Willie decided to match their 5 small ball lineup later in that quarter and we got toasted b/c we had no rim protection and they were getting easy buckets at the rim at will, while we took contested mid range shots.
Chet was 4-6 on JV for 9 points through 22 possessions. OKC scored 20 points on those 22 possessions. Larry only covered him on 7 possessions and Chet didn't take a shot.
JV was 5-10 for 10 points through 29 possessions on Chet. We scored 30 points on those 29 possessions.
And the bad....
the defense was atrocious
CJ gave up 31 points on 14-17 shooting against him. That's just an astounding stat right there. 14 for 17 shooting for a team against 1 guy.
I'll remind you that in Game 1 he gave up 30 points on 12-19 shooting.
They are hunting CJ and attacking him when he's on the ball, and they are being extremely successful at it.
CJ guarded SGA on 7 possessions. OKC scored 14 points on those 7 possessions.
BI gave up 24 points on 9-16 shooting last night.
In game 1 he gave up 9 points on 4-11 shooting. You could tell the effort was pathetic last night from him.
SGA only took 3 shots on Herb and was 1-3 for 2 points, an assist and a turnover. 32 possessions he guarded him and it resulted in 2 points.
SGA did the majority of his work on CJ who he was 4-4 on, and Larry who he was 3-4 on. that zone quit working once they went small and put SGA at the FT line and got one on ones with Larry.
BI was 4-7 against Dort for 8 points, 2 assists and no turnovers. Much better this game against him, but still, BI's taking more shots against Dort than SGA is on Herb.
And i'll blame both the coaching and BI for that, b/c BI needs to learn how to let someone set a proper screen to get rid of Dort, and he needs to stop stopping at the FT line once he does get around Dort, and let him back in to defend him again. That's so frickign stupid and made the screen completely pointless. Now you have Dort back on you, and Chet was able to defend BI and JV at the same time, while also now having positioning on JV if BI shoots it.
To recap all of that crap:
CJ is terrible
BI is terrible
One for sure needs to be traded this offseason, wouldn't bother me if both were moved.
The attitude BI has displayed since he came back from injury has been embarressing.
Daigle Nut is a much better coach than Willie
and the positive to all of this...........
So we lost 2 games on the road. Big wooptie doo.
Win game 3 and everything will be alright.
A series doesn't get interesting until a road team wins a game.
We can't shoot, and our defense is pathetic.
We all love Jose, but it's been two bad games for him. He's got the worse +/- in both games. I can live with that though. He's not a guy I expect to be the difference maker in every game.
Jose is 1-7 from 3 and 1-5 in the paint this series.
If there's one thing that pissed me off more than anything last night, it was the walking around all the time by BI. Guy looked disinterested in playing basketball last night. He actually had a really good 3rd quarter, and picked it up defensively that quarter as well, but you can't play hard for 25% of the game, and like you don't give a shite the other 3/4 of the game.
He's 0-2 from 3 through 2 games.
He's 8-21 for 38% from the mid range. He's 4-4 from the area right at the FT line and below. That is his spot on the court, and where more plays should drawn up to get him the ball at, and where he should work off the dribble to get to.
He's only attempted 4 shots at the rim, making 2.
He's 10-10 from the FT line.
He has 30 points on 27 attempts.
He rarely was able to get Dort off of him through screens, and the reason for that is b/c BI played like a 10 year old and rarely ever waited for the screen to actually get set, which is also why we had several moving screens called on us. You can't take off dribbling before the screen gets there. that's taught in middle school.
CJ is 3-14 for 21% from 3 through 2 games.
He's 9-18 for 50% from min range.
He's 3-4 at the rim.
He's attempted 2 FT's in 2 games.
He has 35 points on 36 attempts.
Both BI and CJ have been downright terrible on offense.
As a team, we are 5-26 for 19% on corner 3's, which i'd bet almost every single one of them was an open shot. We aren't beating anyone with the way we are shooting from 3. And it's not like we are taking bad shots. They are open shots from guys that can shoot, we just can't make them.
We are 18-65 for 28% through 2 games. Doesn't matter what our plan on offense is, if we can't hit open 3's then we have no shot at winning.
JV dominated Chet when he was in the game offensively, and we didn't go to him enough. The fact that Chet had 4 fouls in the 3rd quarter and Willie took JV out of the game is a fireable offense. The run we made in the 2nd quarter was when we got Chet out of the game and we were able to get to the rim more. Instead, Willie decided to match their 5 small ball lineup later in that quarter and we got toasted b/c we had no rim protection and they were getting easy buckets at the rim at will, while we took contested mid range shots.
Chet was 4-6 on JV for 9 points through 22 possessions. OKC scored 20 points on those 22 possessions. Larry only covered him on 7 possessions and Chet didn't take a shot.
JV was 5-10 for 10 points through 29 possessions on Chet. We scored 30 points on those 29 possessions.
And the bad....
the defense was atrocious
CJ gave up 31 points on 14-17 shooting against him. That's just an astounding stat right there. 14 for 17 shooting for a team against 1 guy.
I'll remind you that in Game 1 he gave up 30 points on 12-19 shooting.
They are hunting CJ and attacking him when he's on the ball, and they are being extremely successful at it.
CJ guarded SGA on 7 possessions. OKC scored 14 points on those 7 possessions.
BI gave up 24 points on 9-16 shooting last night.
In game 1 he gave up 9 points on 4-11 shooting. You could tell the effort was pathetic last night from him.
SGA only took 3 shots on Herb and was 1-3 for 2 points, an assist and a turnover. 32 possessions he guarded him and it resulted in 2 points.
SGA did the majority of his work on CJ who he was 4-4 on, and Larry who he was 3-4 on. that zone quit working once they went small and put SGA at the FT line and got one on ones with Larry.
BI was 4-7 against Dort for 8 points, 2 assists and no turnovers. Much better this game against him, but still, BI's taking more shots against Dort than SGA is on Herb.
And i'll blame both the coaching and BI for that, b/c BI needs to learn how to let someone set a proper screen to get rid of Dort, and he needs to stop stopping at the FT line once he does get around Dort, and let him back in to defend him again. That's so frickign stupid and made the screen completely pointless. Now you have Dort back on you, and Chet was able to defend BI and JV at the same time, while also now having positioning on JV if BI shoots it.
To recap all of that crap:
CJ is terrible
BI is terrible
One for sure needs to be traded this offseason, wouldn't bother me if both were moved.
The attitude BI has displayed since he came back from injury has been embarressing.
Daigle Nut is a much better coach than Willie
and the positive to all of this...........
So we lost 2 games on the road. Big wooptie doo.
Win game 3 and everything will be alright.
A series doesn't get interesting until a road team wins a game.
8
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:48 am to TeddyPadillac
Brother Teddy you are finally coming around. Welcome home.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:54 am to TeddyPadillac
Excellent write up and all fair assessments.
One thing I’ll add, while the outside shooting has been laughably bad these first two games I think there is an obvious reason why. The court gravity Zion commands is gone. Dort and Williams can play physical out on the perimeter because there is no threat of Zion doing a spin move and posterizing Chet - or Zion forcing that wall of defenders in and dishing out for an open look.
It’s so disappointing about his injury. I think he would wreak havoc in this series against a soft big like Holmgren.
One thing I’ll add, while the outside shooting has been laughably bad these first two games I think there is an obvious reason why. The court gravity Zion commands is gone. Dort and Williams can play physical out on the perimeter because there is no threat of Zion doing a spin move and posterizing Chet - or Zion forcing that wall of defenders in and dishing out for an open look.
It’s so disappointing about his injury. I think he would wreak havoc in this series against a soft big like Holmgren.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:55 am to 50_Tiger
I think what this tells me is how historically good Herb is more than anything.
We have four below average defenders and still a top 10 D because of one dude.
Well three if you count Dyson and Jose, maybe Naji too.
I'd move BI and CJ. Need someone who can penetrate consistently and shoot 3s.
Murray
Herb
Trey
Zion
Okongwu
With Dyson, Jose, Hawkins isn't terrible.
Probably still need more scoring unless Hawkins and Dyson take a huge step. I wonder if the Hawks had any interest in BI.
We have four below average defenders and still a top 10 D because of one dude.
Well three if you count Dyson and Jose, maybe Naji too.
I'd move BI and CJ. Need someone who can penetrate consistently and shoot 3s.
Murray
Herb
Trey
Zion
Okongwu
With Dyson, Jose, Hawkins isn't terrible.
Probably still need more scoring unless Hawkins and Dyson take a huge step. I wonder if the Hawks had any interest in BI.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:56 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Daigle Nut is a much better coach than Willie
You just don't understand Willie's game plan. By keeping 3 defensive mismatches on the court at all times, he's trying to confuse the young Thunder so they don't know which mismatch to take advantage of.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:56 am to pleading the fifth
I think if you kept the starting unit the same prior to BI coming back, we win game 1 easily and game 2 is a toss up.
Edit: This is assuming Zion is playing.
Edit: This is assuming Zion is playing.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 9:00 am
Posted on 4/25/24 at 8:56 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
So we lost 2 games on the road. Big wooptie doo. Win game 3 and everything will be alright. A series doesn't get interesting until a road team wins a game.
‘Alright’ is optimistic. 2-0 teams in Round 1 are 183-13 on the series.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:02 am to TeddyPadillac
It's unbelievable that CJ continues to play the amount of minutes he's playing. He's about as bad on the defensive end as you can possibly be, and his offense has been awful. But yeah let's keep him in and let him continue to give up points and miss shots. At this point it's on Willie for leaving him in and not at least trying Dyson and Hawk to see if they can give better minutes and give this team a spark.
Why not play them the majority of the second half when the game was out of hand? Great opportunity to get our young guys playoff experience and at least see what they can provide. Wasting the development of these guys while watching CJ and BI continue to be abysmal. Willie needs to go.
Why not play them the majority of the second half when the game was out of hand? Great opportunity to get our young guys playoff experience and at least see what they can provide. Wasting the development of these guys while watching CJ and BI continue to be abysmal. Willie needs to go.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:02 am to 50_Tiger
my man, I know you or anyone else wouldn't remember me saying it, but I have been saying for 3 years now that we would find out if the Zion/BI combo was good enough to be a contender during this season and last season, and if it wasn't then one of them needed to go.
We didn't get to see it last season, and i've seen enough this season, and i've been saying for a little while now that we need to move BI.
We didn't get to see it last season, and i've seen enough this season, and i've been saying for a little while now that we need to move BI.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:06 am to NOFOX
Great write up.
I'd definitely like to see us move on from BI and CJ. I think CJ is over the hill and we've seen that BI will never be that guy. I just don't believe he has it in terms of leadership or athleticism. He's slow and weak, so unless he's knocking down 50%+ shots he just doesn't impact the game well enough in other areas.
Both CJ and BI rely too much on that ISO type game which creates a stagnant offense. You see it so many times, one of them gets the ball and you have 4 guys standing completely still.
Zion has the highest ceiling and is who you need to build around, but has shown he cannot stay healthy.
Not sure exactly what to do with the current roster, but I'd rather us blow it up and try something else then continue to fight for 6-8 seed.
I'd definitely like to see us move on from BI and CJ. I think CJ is over the hill and we've seen that BI will never be that guy. I just don't believe he has it in terms of leadership or athleticism. He's slow and weak, so unless he's knocking down 50%+ shots he just doesn't impact the game well enough in other areas.
Both CJ and BI rely too much on that ISO type game which creates a stagnant offense. You see it so many times, one of them gets the ball and you have 4 guys standing completely still.
Zion has the highest ceiling and is who you need to build around, but has shown he cannot stay healthy.
Not sure exactly what to do with the current roster, but I'd rather us blow it up and try something else then continue to fight for 6-8 seed.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:14 am to ghost2most
quote:
I think what this tells me is how historically good Herb is more than anything.
We have four below average defenders and still a top 10 D because of one dude.
There were two plays i remember last night where Herb seemed to be guarding 2 guys at once. He stayed with his man while getting screened, while another one of our defenders stepped up to help on the screen. The pass was made to the roll man and somehow Herb was able to get back and challenge the shot at the rim and made them miss. Twice he did this last night.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:19 am to DumpTruckerson
quote:
Both CJ and BI rely too much on that ISO type game which creates a stagnant offense. You see it so many times, one of them gets the ball and you have 4 guys standing completely still.
This is why CJ as the #2 doesn't work. B/c you have to do this as the #2 at times throughout a game. It's inevitable b/c plays get messed up and you have to give it to someone and ask them to create something late in the shot clock. It happens a dozen or so times a game.
CJ as the #3 means that the best perimeter defender isnt' guarding him, and it also means if the other team is going small then their biggest wing defender is now on Zion, and their next best guy is on BI (or whatever #2 we bring in). And in these scenarios CJ is much more successful going iso.
But nothing pisses me off more than when CJ comes down the court and makes zero passes and chucks up a shot, especially when JV is in the game and we should be playing through him. Now you want to do that when you're 4-5 from 3 in the game, fine. But that isn't close to happening these last two games.
Same as when BI walks it up the court, then dribbles slowly at half court for 8 more seconds, and now it's under 10 on the shot clock and we've literally done nothing on offense yet.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:20 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
CJ gave up 31 points on 14-17 shooting against him. That's just an astounding stat right there. 14 for 17 shooting for a team against 1 guy.
I'll remind you that in Game 1 he gave up 30 points on 12-19 shooting.
They are hunting CJ and attacking him when he's on the ball, and they are being extremely successful at it.
CJ guarded SGA on 7 possessions. OKC scored 14 points on those 7 possessions.
BI gave up 24 points on 9-16 shooting last night.
In game 1 he gave up 9 points on 4-11 shooting. You could tell the effort was pathetic last night from him.
Jesus Christ they shot a combined 23/33 against CJ and BI. 70 fricking percent.
That's pathetic. At least CJ is small and old, I get why he's a bad defender.
BI is 26, 6'8 and a 7'3 wingspan. It takes a special level of apathy on defense to be that bad with those measurables
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:20 am to TeddyPadillac
Incredible write up
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:22 am to TeddyPadillac
You either tell CJ to accept the 6th man role or find himself in a non playoff position.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:37 am to Balsamic_duck
quote:
BI is 26, 6'8 and a 7'3 wingspan. It takes a special level of apathy on defense to be that bad with those measurables
I agree.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:01 am to TeddyPadillac
Great write up and stats. I do think OKC coach is much better than the last time OKC had players (Scotty Brooks). He is young and relates but he actually coaches constantly. He has many designed out of bounds plays where old days it was get ball to KD and he’ll figure it out type stuff. He has basically grown up with these players. Also wanted to add, this is his first time getting to play a series and focus on a team and make game to game adjustments. I think he is very good tactics wise but this is his first chance to show it.
There is no doubt this series is completely different with Zion playing and it sucks he is out. You work hard all year (as a team) to make playoffs and your best player gets hurt.
I saw some stats on rebounds and wanted to share. I don’t know that OKC can win the West but they went 3-1 vs Denver this year. Its very likely Dallas or LAC beats them if they close this series out. The one thing they have is youth and energy but this is all new playoff experience for them, they don’t yet understand their youth is supposed to be a brick wall to go far. It likely catches up at some point but their HC is really good.
These 2 tweets talk about rebounds, as I always felt this would bite them:
This guy replied to it (can’t post 2 tweets so am copying his reply to the above tweet):
Div B
@statcenter
This was OKC's recipe all season.
It's ok to be 27th in the NBA in offensive rebs when you're 3rd-best in both eFG% and lowest TO rate.
And it's ok to be 29th in def rebs when you're 4th in opponent eFG% and first in forcing TOs.
There is no doubt this series is completely different with Zion playing and it sucks he is out. You work hard all year (as a team) to make playoffs and your best player gets hurt.
I saw some stats on rebounds and wanted to share. I don’t know that OKC can win the West but they went 3-1 vs Denver this year. Its very likely Dallas or LAC beats them if they close this series out. The one thing they have is youth and energy but this is all new playoff experience for them, they don’t yet understand their youth is supposed to be a brick wall to go far. It likely catches up at some point but their HC is really good.
These 2 tweets talk about rebounds, as I always felt this would bite them:
Loading Twitter Embed.... This guy replied to it (can’t post 2 tweets so am copying his reply to the above tweet):
Div B
@statcenter
This was OKC's recipe all season.
It's ok to be 27th in the NBA in offensive rebs when you're 3rd-best in both eFG% and lowest TO rate.
And it's ok to be 29th in def rebs when you're 4th in opponent eFG% and first in forcing TOs.
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 10:04 am
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:11 am to scutfarcus
quote:
Willie needs to go.
THIS
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:33 am to OU Guy
quote:
This was OKC's recipe all season. It's ok to be 27th in the NBA in offensive rebs when you're 3rd-best in both eFG% and lowest TO rate. And it's ok to be 29th in def rebs when you're 4th in opponent eFG% and first in forcing TOs
Against any other team in the playoffs this is a major issue. But with who our coach and our stars are they get away with it. Next round mavs/clippers will destroy this recipe by okc. Its just not a winning strategy, unfortunately we just have bigger problems.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:53 am to Pels_Yaz
The thing with CJ giving up 30ppg in the two games, it's not like you can really do much to stop that, but you can at least counter it by scoring.
Yeah guys like Dame and Trae have similar stats against them, but if they put up 30-40 points on their own and dish out 8-10 assists, kind of makes you forget about being terrible on defense.
CJ can't give up 30, and then only score 15 and be mostly ineffective on offense.
Yeah guys like Dame and Trae have similar stats against them, but if they put up 30-40 points on their own and dish out 8-10 assists, kind of makes you forget about being terrible on defense.
CJ can't give up 30, and then only score 15 and be mostly ineffective on offense.
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