- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Do you think Griff and the front office are satisfied with just beating average/bad teams?
Posted on 1/28/24 at 9:34 am to shel311
Posted on 1/28/24 at 9:34 am to shel311
quote:
The tide is slowly turning here on Pel Talk.
Ingram had more than enough clout built to warrant at least the majority of this season to play out before deciding that he is a fit/isn't long term.
Unfortunately now that we have done that, were there. This isn't working.
The problem with his play is simple consistency. He plays about 4 different games. There volume 3s and to the rim Ingram, middy Ingram, and pg Ingram with low fga, and the dreaded mixed bag of all 3 in one game.
He looks uncomfortable as shite out there. There's a rigidity to his game now that has him playing the worst ball of his career at this time, which is awful if you want to trade him
Which is even worse because his value will be even lower this offseason unless he changes drastically.
I say all this to prepare you guys for Griff not getting enough for B.I. in his eyes at the deadline, and keeping him. My even bigger fear is that we don't get a good distributor back, and are stuck with essentially Z and CJ as the pgs of the offense.
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 9:36 am
0
Posted on 1/28/24 at 9:55 am to TigerinATL
Changing the coach or trading BI is unlikely to move the needle. That’s not to say that a true superstar wouldn’t help.
J
J
Posted on 1/28/24 at 9:58 am to shel311
quote:
The tide is slowly turning here on Pel Talk.
I’ve suspected BI wasn’t the best fit, but that’s because of his preferred playing style, not his skill set. Still, we needed to actually see it in action, because if he could change things up like CJ has then it could work. But he hasn’t, which strongly suggests that he won’t. It’s a shame it took literal years to get here.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:02 am to VOR
quote:
or trading BI is unlikely to move the needle.
If BI+Jonas' expiring+Dyson+multiple firsts lands you a legit superstar, how does that not move the needle?
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:04 am to TigerinATL
quote:
It’s a shame it took literal years to get here.
Blame the org, and to a lesser extent Z. Ingram is a really good player that we put bad players and coaches for him to work with. I think Willie is a really good coach, but with the lack of talent Ingram had around him for so long, he went all in on his game and never changed enough to really be a true 3pt sniper.
Ingram the player is still very salvageable, I just don't think we have the right coach to do it, and I don't even know if that coach exists.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:07 am to TigerinATL
quote:Correct
but that’s because of his preferred playing style, not his skill set
He has the skill set to be a legit #2 and All NBA type player. But at this point, it's clear he won't change his shot profile to become that better player.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:09 am to Broski
quote:Right
If BI+Jonas' expiring+Dyson+multiple firsts lands you a legit superstar, how does that not move the needle?
If, and that's a big if, it happens, it won't be at the deadline, I'd think there's zero chance of that. If it does, it would be this offseason or near deadline next season.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:10 am to shel311
quote:
If, and that's a big if, it happens, it won't be at the deadline, I'd think there's zero chance of that. If it does, it would be this offseason or near deadline next season.
Unfortunately, with Jonas' contract, it'd have to happen now... which is why it won't happen.
ETA: We can do it next year with BI and Larry both expiring after 24/25. That would be $45m in expiring money.
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 10:13 am
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:20 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Blame the org, and to a lesser extent Z.
Blame the org for not understanding until 2 years ago that, in this NBA, you need shooting, but the bulk of the blame belongs to Zion's lack of availability.
That is not only directly responsible for him not progressing into the superstar that I'm sure the FO assumed he would be in year 5, but also because him hardly ever being on the court didn't allow for the FO to gather data on how productive/unproductive a Z/BI led team could be.
We've essentially just been in "wait for Zion to be healthy" mode since the day he got hurt in the preseason of his rookie year, while trying to cobble together competitive seasons in the meantime to keep the fanbase engaged with the carrot of "just watch how good we'll be when we're fully healthy"
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 10:26 am
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:34 am to Broski
quote:
We've essentially just been in "wait for Zion to be healthy" mode since the day he got hurt in the preseason of his rookie year, while trying to cobble together competitive seasons in the meantime to keep the fanbase engaged with the carrot of "just watch how good we'll be when we're fully healthy"
Yep. All this.
They only thing I truly disagree with right now are people saying Zion will never be better than what he is, which is wild to say of a 23 year old.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:37 am to whatiknowsofar
I think he can still get better, but it is concerning that he is largely still the same player that he was when he entered the league.
And the fact that he has not progressed much to this point in his career has really fricked over the Pelicans, and that pisses me off.
And the fact that he has not progressed much to this point in his career has really fricked over the Pelicans, and that pisses me off.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 11:07 am to Broski
quote:
the fact that he has not progressed much to this point in his career has really fricked over the Pelicans, and that pisses me off.
In reality we should've seen that coming. You can get better in the gym but to really get to a special level you have to play nba games. And he hasn't.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 11:11 am to shel311
quote:
Correct He has the skill set to be a legit #2 and All NBA type player. But at this point, it's clear he won't change his shot profile to become that better player.
He’s an extremely stubborn and low iq player. The staff has been trying to get him to chang this shot diet for years and he refuses. I would have shipped him out after the first year he refused to take more 3s
Posted on 1/28/24 at 11:17 am to whatiknowsofar
We also should've seen the writing on the wall when JJ called out Zion's work ethic and then CJ alluded to it as well.
Before this season, we kept trying to rationalize that Zion's lack of fitness was because he kept getting injured, but I think we're getting confirmation this year that his lack of fitness is due to him not taking his fitness seriously. The realization that his injuries are due that lack of fitness and not the other way around has been really sobering for me this season.
I've said for years that I'm just waiting for it to "click" for Zion where he'd go from immature kid to adult who realizes he can be a special player in this game. I thought all the drama from the 21/22 season would do it, then I thought that his 22/23 season getting cut short after he was playing near an MVP-level would do it. Hell, I even thought that having a kid and him playing for something more than himself would do it... but none of that seems to be motivating him to change his philosophies.
This season is the first time I've gone from "just wait till it clicks for Zion" to "What if it never clicks for Zion?"
Before this season, we kept trying to rationalize that Zion's lack of fitness was because he kept getting injured, but I think we're getting confirmation this year that his lack of fitness is due to him not taking his fitness seriously. The realization that his injuries are due that lack of fitness and not the other way around has been really sobering for me this season.
I've said for years that I'm just waiting for it to "click" for Zion where he'd go from immature kid to adult who realizes he can be a special player in this game. I thought all the drama from the 21/22 season would do it, then I thought that his 22/23 season getting cut short after he was playing near an MVP-level would do it. Hell, I even thought that having a kid and him playing for something more than himself would do it... but none of that seems to be motivating him to change his philosophies.
This season is the first time I've gone from "just wait till it clicks for Zion" to "What if it never clicks for Zion?"
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 11:20 am
Posted on 1/28/24 at 12:03 pm to BowDownToLSU
quote:
I think we probably have the nicest group of guys in the NBA and it’s gonna be hard to say goodbye but hopefully he starts making some trades
For sure glad that the ASB didn't come after the Hornets game where there was a lot of delusion occurring. The Pels are a good team but need to adjust their roster if they expect anything past the first round.
The talent is there, but its' terribly imbalanced. Pels, by my count, have (1) point and (9) wings, and with little argument, their top (5-6) players are all wings.
The frontcourt is manned by two 30+ players, one a good rebounder that's slow with bad hands and feet and the other an athletic but undersized and injury-prone player. This team desperately needs a big that fits this roster better, when they are essentially playing one big lineups (no PF). It's left little to wonder why they continue to get big-boy'd in games that matter.
What's obvious is that their two best players despite their height/weight combo (BI-6'8" and Zion-285) are actually backcourt players, both capable of playing 1-3. That's not really a problem, Pels just need to recognize the fact and adjust accordingly.
Viewing BI and Zion as essentially backcourt players further exacerbates the issue with the number of wings. There is not enough court time to effectively utilize and grow the others properly. They need to come off one, maybe two of them and add athleticism, physicality, and toughness to the frontcourt. They can likely manage the point position through this year (address in the off-season), but if they want to make some post-season noise it's clear what they need to do.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 12:32 pm to shel311
I would REALLY like to get an informed opinion...as to exactly WHAT...we could get in a fair trade for Zion and/or BI.
For instance, for Zion, could we realistically get a top 35 player...that would fit?
And for BI...maybe a top 50 player that also fits?
I haven't been around here for long...but I think I have BOTH Zion and BI rated quite a bit lower...than most others around here do.
For instance, for Zion, could we realistically get a top 35 player...that would fit?
And for BI...maybe a top 50 player that also fits?
I haven't been around here for long...but I think I have BOTH Zion and BI rated quite a bit lower...than most others around here do.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 12:44 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
I would REALLY like to get an informed opinion...as to exactly WHAT...we could get in a fair trade for Zion and/or BI. For instance, for Zion, could we realistically get a top 35 player...that would fit? And for BI...maybe a top 50 player that also fits? I haven't been around here for long...but I think I have BOTH Zion and BI rated quite a bit lower...than most others around here do.
Yeah I think people would be shocked at how low the offers would be. Put it this way. If Zion and BI were on another team, how much would you give up for them?
I know I wouldn’t want to give up much
Posted on 1/28/24 at 12:53 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Yeah I think people would be shocked at how low the offers would be. Put it this way. If Zion and BI were on another team, how much would you give up for them?
I know I wouldn’t want to give up much
Depends on the circumstances. If im a higher end/bigger market team im just gona wait it out or lowball.
But if im a team like OKC who has no real shot of attracting guys like that otherwise im taking a shot.
A team like OKC has so many picks that they can never realistically use.
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 1/28/24 at 12:55 pm to Pistol44
I think a package built around BI and a lot of our 1st round picks could fetch something good, especially if there is a team with a disgruntled superstar.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 1:04 pm to Balsamic_duck
quote:
Yeah I think people would be shocked at how low the offers would be. Put it this way. If Zion and BI were on another team, how much would you give up for them?
I know I wouldn’t want to give up much
Seems to me the Pels have painted themselves into a corner with their current "Batman & Robin"...and are gonna have to get extremely lucky to come out the other side...with a solid squad. We got VERY lucky on Herb...MAYBE found a gem, with Trey...and I still haven't given up on DD. The last thing the Pels need to do...is give up on DD.
Gonna take a very astute trade (or 2) for Pels to hang in there. Shoulda started goin' after Mikal Bridges last year around Christmas, with guns blazing...and one or both of our "studs" available for any trade. Thank goodness we avoided the "Scoot mania"...and I STILL would luv to get Brandon Miller...SOMEHOW !! Gonna have to hit the lotto a time or two...with a guy like that...(Paul George, Part 2?)...and get rid of our 2 "studs" in the process. It could still happen...just can't afford to make any more mistakes.
This post was edited on 1/28/24 at 1:14 pm
Page 2 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News