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re: Let's have a civil discussion about AI music
Posted on 10/9/26 at 1:51 pm to Dawglovertoo
Posted on 10/9/26 at 1:51 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
You are comparing apples to oranges.
I will need you to explain how.
As for your brother's song, yes, if he wrote the lyrics and also wrote the melody that absolutely makes him the songwriter. However, the use of AI to generate a finished recording is where things get blurry. There's a big difference between, let's say, recording a bass line for your song using a standard guitar and then telling the AI to implement it into the track as the bass, versus simply telling the AI to add a groovy bass line. In the former case the creative product is entirely your own and you are leveraging the AI to help you turn it into a finished product, whereas in the second case at least part of the creative product did not come from you at all. If you had asked another human to write a bass line for you instead, then they would want (and have legal rights to) partial songwriting credit for the finished product. Why do you think it's different to have an AI do it?
Posted on 10/9/26 at 2:16 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
You are comparing apples to oranges.
quote:
I will need you to explain how.
Writing the lyrics to an AI song is telling AI to create a finished song which is not a physical work of art while telling AI how to create a painting is telling AI to create something that is a physical work of art.
quote:
As for your brother's song, yes, if he wrote the lyrics and also wrote the melody that absolutely makes him the songwriter. However, the use of AI to generate a finished recording is where things get blurry. There's a big difference between, let's say, recording a bass line for your song using a standard guitar and then telling the AI to implement it into the track as the bass, versus simply telling the AI to add a groovy bass line. In the former case the creative product is entirely your own and you are leveraging the AI to help you turn it into a finished product, whereas in the second case at least part of the creative product did not come from you at all. If you had asked another human to write a bass line for you instead, then they would want (and have legal rights to) partial songwriting credit for the finished product. Why do you think it's different to have an AI do it?
Just like I would tell a bass player how I want the bass line to sound like and then have the bass player repeat the bass line until the bass player gets it the way I want it to sound like, I can tell AI how I want the bass line to sound like then redo the version of the AI song unil it gets the bass line to sound like the way I want it to sound like.
I am involved in the creative process of how I want the bass line to sound like in both cases.
I don't see much difference between the two except it is a lot cheaper for me to use AI instead of having to pay a lot more money to hire a bass player.
This post was edited on 10/9/26 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 10/9/26 at 2:36 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
Writing the lyrics to an AI song is telling AI to create a finished song which is not a physical work of art while telling AI how to create a painting is telling AI to create something that is a physical work of art.
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? We're talking about artistic integrity. The medium is irrelevant. If you wanted we could have this same discussion about physical art created by AI.
quote:
Just like I would tell a bass player how I want the bass line to sound like and then have the bass player repeat the bass line until the bass player gets it the way I want it to sound like
In this example, who would you say is the actual writer of the bass line?
Posted on 10/9/26 at 3:41 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
Apparently you are not a songwriter deeprig9 because you used AI to compose your finished song that you wrote all the lyrics to.
AI didn't compose a damn thing.
I (my whole band really) wrote the lyrics, the chords, the hooks, the whole song, and recorded it all with live instruments. Then I fed that into Suno. Suno just put a more professional polished sound on it, and it did really well at it.
That is different from writing lyrics and letting Suno do everything else.
This post was edited on 10/9/26 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 10/9/26 at 3:56 pm to deeprig9
quote:
This exchange reminds me of Breto Ganibe.
"I just sold my first song"
"You have sold me vegetables"
I expected more people on this board to get this.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 4:12 pm to deeprig9
quote:
That is different from writing lyrics and letting Suno do everything else.
That's true but even if someone just writes the lyrics and lets AI do everything else that person is still a songwriter.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 4:16 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
That's true but even if someone just writes the lyrics and lets AI do everything else that person is still a songwriter.
I disagree.
Elton John had a lyricist write 100% of the lyrics. Elton wrote all the chords and changes and melodies. Elton John is the songwriter. The other guy was the lyricist.
In this scenario, you are the lyricist but instead of using Elton John to create the music, you are using AI.
Posted on 10/9/26 at 4:57 pm to Dawglovertoo
What's the difference between a song with no music and a poem?
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:17 pm to deeprig9
quote:
I disagree
I've already explained this once but I guess I have to explain it again.
According to Merriam-Webster, a songwriter is "a person who composes words or music or both especially for popular songs."
Merriam-Webster lists composer, musician, lyricist, and tunesmith as the primary synonyms for "songwriter".
According to Wikipedia, "Songwriters can be employed in a variety of different ways. They may exclusively write lyrics or compose music alongside another artist."
Therefore, in this scenario I am a songwriter and so are you.
songwriter
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:31 pm to Dawglovertoo
See, deeprig9? He's a songwriter just like you and me! He may not have actually written any music, mind you, he had a machine do that for him, but we're really all the same!
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:40 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
What's the difference between a song with no music and a poem?
A song performed using only the human voice, with zero instruments, is called a cappella.
According to Merriem-Webster a poem is:
1 : a composition in verse
2 : something suggesting a poem (as in expressiveness, lyricism, or formal grace)
poem
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:45 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
See, deeprig9? He's a songwriter just like you and me! He may not have actually written any music, mind you, he had a machine do that for him, but we're really all the same!
If you don't like the Merriam-Webster's definition of "songwriter" then create your own dictionary with your own definition of "songwriter".
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:46 pm to Dawglovertoo
I know what a song and a poem are, obviously. My question is, if you write a "song" but there's no music for it, haven't you just written a poem? Is e. e. cummings a songwriter or a poet?
Posted on 10/9/26 at 5:53 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
I know what a song and a poem are, obviously. My question is, if you write a "song" but there's no music for it, haven't you just written a poem? Is e. e. cummings a songwriter or a poet?
Of course if you write a poem but there is no music to accompany it then you are just a poet.
However, if you write a poem and have someone else create music for it then you are both a poet and a songwriter.
All of the lyrics my brother wrote which he used AI to create the final version of his songs he also composed his own original music for those songs.
Whether he has live musicians or AI complete the final version of his songs he is the songwriter.
This post was edited on 10/10/26 at 9:17 am
Posted on 10/11/26 at 9:30 am to Bowstring1
Do you mean ask ALabama?
Posted on 10/11/26 at 1:59 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
Here's an example of an AI song my brother and I created that is just as good as songs produced by the music industry.
It's called "Maze of Madness" and is about living a full life in spite of the ups and downs and the twists and turns.
Here's the link to the song.
Maze of Madness
Sounds like some bubble gum pop version of the worst church music ever
Posted on 10/11/26 at 2:02 pm to Dawglovertoo
quote:
However, if you write a poem and have someone else create music for it then you are both a poet and a songwriter.
Based on the fundamental rules of grammar no. The person or entity that wrote the song is the song writer. You still just wrote the poem. Someone/something else wrote the song. Therefor you cannot be both the poet and songwriter in this scenario. The song writing portion was not a task you performed. This is simple linguistics.
Posted on 10/11/26 at 2:08 pm to Dawglovertoo
You're not a songwriter.
...but your trolling is top notch.
...but your trolling is top notch.
Posted on 10/11/26 at 5:06 pm to Powerman
quote:
The person or entity that wrote the song is the song writer. You still just wrote the poem. Someone/something else wrote the song. Therefor you cannot be both the poet and songwriter in this scenario. The song writing portion was not a task you performed.
Are you saying Merriam-Webster dictionary is incorrect because according to Merriam-Webster, a songwriter is "a person who composes words or music or both especially for popular songs."
If someone writes a poem then later on someone else creates a musical composition and uses the poem as the lyrics in the musical composition then the person who wrote the poem is the songwriter.
BTW, you should learn the correct spelling of "therefore".
This post was edited on 10/11/26 at 5:12 pm
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