- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
0
Posted on 3/26/18 at 6:20 pm to McCringleberryy
About to start the last episode. This is amazing.
Posted on 3/26/18 at 9:09 pm to McCringleberryy
I wonder what these old country folk think about the libtards now.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 7:48 am to McCringleberryy
Finished this series last night. I found it fascinating. I don't think the documentary itself went out of it's way to portray either side in a positive or negative way. The whole story was told by archived news footage and the people that were there. The town residents were assholes back then and still sounded like assholes today. Sheela and her inner circle were nuts and did awful, awful things. They were also pushed to it by the people in Antelope. Did the Rajneeshees take it way the frick too far? Unquestionably, and there is no excusing some of the shite they did. However, just listening to the townspeople explain it in their own words and it's clear that their concerns with the Rashneesh were never about land use, it was pure bigotry and fear. Absolutely shocked that none of them have a problem with a giant Christian camp now existing on the property. Shocked, I tell you.
I find it funny that the people who still live in BFE,Oregon seem to be holding on to the past. Like the grandson of the co-founder of Nike said "I miss the fight". Meanwhile, most of the Rajneesh people seem to have moved on and found some sort of happiness in their respective lives. I've got a lot of respect for Philip Toelkes (a.k.a. Swami Prem Niren). He seemed like he was trying to do the right thing and I'm interested in the book he's writing.
Final note, Sunny V. Massad or "Sunshine" was very hot back in the day and she has aged very well.
I find it funny that the people who still live in BFE,Oregon seem to be holding on to the past. Like the grandson of the co-founder of Nike said "I miss the fight". Meanwhile, most of the Rajneesh people seem to have moved on and found some sort of happiness in their respective lives. I've got a lot of respect for Philip Toelkes (a.k.a. Swami Prem Niren). He seemed like he was trying to do the right thing and I'm interested in the book he's writing.
Final note, Sunny V. Massad or "Sunshine" was very hot back in the day and she has aged very well.
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 7:56 am
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:06 am to McCringleberryy
I don't understand how story wasn't widely known. It was clearly reported on nightly news. I saw Peter Jennings on there at least a dozen times. Yet not one person in their 50s/60s seems to remember it?
A Cult
Mass Poisoning
A Hotel Bombing
Attempted murder of a federal official
A Fugitive Airplane chase
How could this just get lost in history??
A Cult
Mass Poisoning
A Hotel Bombing
Attempted murder of a federal official
A Fugitive Airplane chase
How could this just get lost in history??
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 9:08 am
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:27 am to McCringleberryy
Finished the other day. Great doc. Thoughts:
1. There is no way Bhagwan is not complicit in all of this. The watches, the Royce's..... His silence was a sham and he was fleecing people out of time and money. The idea that he was a generally innocent, well meaning "guru" is ridiculous. I don't believe it. I think he was brilliant in shifting a significant amount of blame to Sheela, but I think a good portion of the plans were his ideas. The only problem with that is the wiretapping. If Sheela had info on that, that was clearly usable. But maybe she still believes so she wouldn't do it? He also looked hopped up on drugs 90% of the time.
2. Sheela was crazy, scary woman. The AG's comment about her having "no empathy" was cold and kind of tells the whole story.
3. Most of the Rajneesh interviewees were just weird. I guess it's those types that join, but that lawyer...
4. I find it odd that even as someone growing up during that span, I don't remember a peep, not from my parents at least. This was totally new to me.
5. From the little extra research I did, they didn't play up the sex cult part of it enough. Even though they touched on it briefly a few times, apparently it was way worse than that. You do get the one hilarious quote from the cop about the two people on the bridge.
6. It did have some moments of slanted takes with the bombs, the lack of info on the drugs, and the really lame comparison to the Christian group at the end. But that's every doc.
7. They are still around? That's disturbing.
1. There is no way Bhagwan is not complicit in all of this. The watches, the Royce's..... His silence was a sham and he was fleecing people out of time and money. The idea that he was a generally innocent, well meaning "guru" is ridiculous. I don't believe it. I think he was brilliant in shifting a significant amount of blame to Sheela, but I think a good portion of the plans were his ideas. The only problem with that is the wiretapping. If Sheela had info on that, that was clearly usable. But maybe she still believes so she wouldn't do it? He also looked hopped up on drugs 90% of the time.
2. Sheela was crazy, scary woman. The AG's comment about her having "no empathy" was cold and kind of tells the whole story.
3. Most of the Rajneesh interviewees were just weird. I guess it's those types that join, but that lawyer...
4. I find it odd that even as someone growing up during that span, I don't remember a peep, not from my parents at least. This was totally new to me.
5. From the little extra research I did, they didn't play up the sex cult part of it enough. Even though they touched on it briefly a few times, apparently it was way worse than that. You do get the one hilarious quote from the cop about the two people on the bridge.
6. It did have some moments of slanted takes with the bombs, the lack of info on the drugs, and the really lame comparison to the Christian group at the end. But that's every doc.
7. They are still around? That's disturbing.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:34 am to mule74
quote:Because it took place in Oregon. Not to mention, it happen between the People's Temple and Branch Davidians.
I don't understand how story wasn't widely known. It was clearly reported on nightly news. I saw Peter Jennings on there at least a dozen times. Yet not one person in their 50s/60s seems to remember it?
A Cult
Mass Poisoning
A Hotel Bombing
Attempted murder of a federal official
A Fugitive Airplane chase
How could this just get lost in history??
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:36 am to JBeam
quote:
The town residents were assholes back then and still sounded like assholes today. Sheela and her inner circle were nuts and did awful, awful things. They were also pushed to it by the people in Antelope. Did the Rajneeshees take it way the frick too far? Unquestionably, and there is no excusing some of the shite they did. However, just listening to the townspeople explain it in their own words and it's clear that their concerns with the Rashneesh were never about land use, it was pure bigotry and fear.
Eh, they were a small town in the middle of nowhere, used to running their own things. Additionally, the group moves in, which no one cared too much, then started to encroach on the town and voted to rename it Rajneesh. At that point gloves are off and the towns people reaction, while aggressive, was warranted.
The small town was railroaded by a bigger group of people. And while that's a perfectly fair play from a majority/minority perspective, it doesn't mean that people should be happy about it.
quote:
Absolutely shocked that none of them have a problem with a giant Christian camp now existing on the property. Shocked, I tell you.
Things I'm guessing the Christian group doesn't do:
Bring in guns
Rename the town
Bus in thousands of street people
Buy houses for voting purposes
Nude sunbathers (This one could be a positive or a big negative)
Buy Up local businesses and change them
quote:
I find it funny that the people who still live in BFE,Oregon seem to be holding on to the past. Like the grandson of the co-founder of Nike said "I miss the fight". Meanwhile, most of the Rajneesh people seem to have moved on and found some sort of happiness in their respective lives.
Most are still talking like they believe in that stuff. The only one that moved on was probably the Assassin.
quote:
I've got a lot of respect for Philip Toelkes (a.k.a. Swami Prem Niren). He seemed like he was trying to do the right thing and I'm interested in the book he's writing.
He was a loon. Maybe well-intentioned, but with his position, I'm still not sure how much he actually knew. He had to know more, and he had an incredibly creepy laugh.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:20 am to Freauxzen
quote:
1. There is no way Bhagwan is not complicit in all of this. The watches, the Royce's..... His silence was a sham and he was fleecing people out of time and money. The idea that he was a generally innocent, well meaning "guru" is ridiculous. I don't believe it. I think he was brilliant in shifting a significant amount of blame to Sheela, but I think a good portion of the plans were his ideas. The only problem with that is the wiretapping. If Sheela had info on that, that was clearly usable. But maybe she still believes so she wouldn't do it? He also looked hopped up on drugs 90% of the time.
It's been made fairly clear that the Hollywood crowd gave Osho a lot of money while he was in the United States. I also don't see your point in him shifting the blame on Sheela. She was on the frontlines with "Sunshine" (the spokesperson), David Berry Knapp (the mayor) and Philip Toelkes (the attorney). Sheela took it upon herself to make sure that others didn't gain a significant amount of power over here. She also strikes me as the type of person that brings a rocket launcher to a fist fight. If you wrong her, she'll find a way to execute revenge x10.
quote:I think the attorney experienced something that he feels is power and important. It's pretty obvious that this is the first time that he's been able to speak his mind on what exactly happen in Oregon back then.
3. Most of the Rajneesh interviewees were just weird. I guess it's those types that join, but that lawyer...
quote:By way worse what do you mean? I've found research on a few cases of sexuality of the cases. But nothing that screams sex crimes.
5. From the little extra research I did, they didn't play up the sex cult part of it enough. Even though they touched on it briefly a few times, apparently it was way worse than that. You do get the one hilarious quote from the cop about the two people on the bridge.
quote:Not really. Eastern religions is more accepted nowadays than back than. Not to mention, the current Rajneeshpuram rejects a lot of the practices that took place in Oregon.
7. They are still around? That's disturbing.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:34 am to Freauxzen
quote:It was a ghost town of 40 people in rural Oregon. Who are they to pick and choose whether are not one person or an entire group of people buys 88,000 acres of land?
Eh, they were a small town in the middle of nowhere, used to running their own things. Additionally, the group moves in, which no one cared too much, then started to encroach on the town and voted to rename it Rajneesh. At that point gloves are off and the towns people reaction, while aggressive, was warranted.
The small town was railroaded by a bigger group of people. And while that's a perfectly fair play from a majority/minority perspective, it doesn't mean that people should be happy about it.
quote:Like I said previously, Sheela's inner circle did some terrible things. But that was after the hotel bombing (Which was done by another radical group) and the unrest over whether or not they would be allowed to stay on the farmland.
Things I'm guessing the Christian group doesn't do:
Bring in guns
Rename the town
Bus in thousands of street people
Buy houses for voting purposes
Nude sunbathers (This one could be a positive or a big negative)
Buy Up local businesses and change them
Towns in cities in this country change all the time. Don't act like this is some random event.
quote:I think some of them look back on their time as well spent. Also, this type of spirituality isn't as taboo anymore. So some of them have probably found similar communities nowadays.
Most are still talking like they believe in that stuff. The only one that moved on was probably the Assassin.
quote:I'm glad that he had his wife/girlfriend at the end of everything. Most people in that situation usually do something crazy or commit suicide when everything around them is falling apart.
He was a loon. Maybe well-intentioned, but with his position, I'm still not sure how much he actually knew. He had to know more, and he had an incredibly creepy laugh.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:40 am to JBeam
The part I missed in the timeline was how quickly after the bombing they found out that it was a Muslim terrorist act at the hotel in Portland. The doc breezed right over that fact which was an important factor in arming themselves.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:43 am to JBeam
quote:
It was a ghost town of 40 people in rural Oregon. Who are they to pick and choose whether are not one person or an entire group of people buys 88,000 acres of land?
Invading the town, renaming it and its streets, influencing local politics via bused in street people is not just "buying 88,000 acres of land" though.
quote:
Like I said previously, Sheela's inner circle did some terrible things. But that was after the hotel bombing (Which was done by another radical group) and the unrest over whether or not they would be allowed to stay on the farmland.
I didn't hear much about kicking them off the land completely, it was more about the multiple fraud events and the manipulation of local government. Buying a ranch and just living on it, wasn't the point of what they were doing. If they really would have stayed on their own land, I don't think we'd have this kind of documentary today.
quote:
Towns in cities in this country change all the time. Don't act like this is some random event.
I mean, if you can point to an event where a singular religious group moves into some city in the last 20 years, with vastly different lifestyle than those who live there, immediately rename the city, streets, and implement their own morals en masse, I'll listen.
Remember, this happened within 4 years. It's not like they became friends of the town, gained their trust, and renamed the city 20-30 years later when everyone was on board or people had settled differences.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:45 am to JBeam
quote:
Sheela's inner circle did some terrible things. But that was after the hotel bombing
I would caution folks misled or at least not fully following the narrative as it actually happened. Netflix arranged stories so as to conceal (for a later reveal) the more shocking incidents until a later point in their narrative.
They (the Rajneeshi) did not poison The Dalles' restaurants as a perceived response to a threat - this was a trial run to see if they could influence the county elections. This isn't paranoia - as we saw them operate in the laboratory of Antelope. They were spiking the homeless beer - they imported them for votes and when they couldn't use them for that they drugged and discarded them. Not for self-defense, but pure power then pragmatism.
Sheela poisoned insiders she felt were a threat and/or favored by Bhagwan. Bhagwan, for his part, used Sheela to further his own ends and likewise, discarded her when it was convenient and practical to scapegoat her for all the ills done in his name.
These are all domestic terrorists. I mean, Sunny seems innocent and likeable enough, but both mayors (the Rat and the True Believer), Sheela, Bhagwan, were crass, hard, calculating domestic terrorists.
Period. Nothing they did was justified or justifiable in pursuing these thousands of felonies of all stripes. It was a subversion and assault on democracy and the rule of law.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:49 am to tigerpimpbot
quote:Which I find it kind of interesting that they breezed over that issue. Radical Muslim groups had their hand in a lot of sketchy events and murder on the west coast during the 80's & 90's.
The part I missed in the timeline was how quickly after the bombing they found out that it was a Muslim terrorist act at the hotel in Portland. The doc breezed right over that fact which was an important factor in arming themselves.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 10:59 am to Ace Midnight
The hotel bombing happen in June '83 and the Bioterror attack happen in '84.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 11:00 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I would caution folks misled or at least not fully following the narrative as it actually happened. Netflix arranged stories so as to conceal (for a later reveal) the more shocking incidents until a later point in their narrative.
They (the Rajneeshi) did not poison The Dalles' restaurants as a perceived response to a threat - this was a trial run to see if they could influence the county elections. This isn't paranoia - as we saw them operate in the laboratory of Antelope. They were spiking the homeless beer - they imported them for votes and when they couldn't use them for that they drugged and discarded them. Not for self-defense, but pure power then pragmatism.
This. I found it super hypocritical to rail on demoracy while bussing people in to subvert democracy.
quote:
Sheela poisoned insiders she felt were a threat and/or favored by Bhagwan. Bhagwan, for his part, used Sheela to further his own ends and likewise, discarded her when it was convenient and practical to scapegoat her for all the ills done in his name.
Agree on this. I think the AG's comment was spot on, Sheela's lack of empathy and devotion to the Bhagwan and his vision is exactly what justified every one of those actions. The Bhagwan was complicit and probably the overall mastermind, we just don't have that info.
quote:
These are all domestic terrorists. I mean, Sunny seems innocent and likeable enough, but both mayors (the Rat and the True Believer), Sheela, Bhagwan, were crass, hard, calculating domestic terrorists.
Look, maybe they and the cult have moved on, but to be able to speak to these things while smiling is pretty troubling.
quote:
Period. Nothing they did was justified or justifiable in pursuing these thousands of felonies of all stripes. It was a subversion and assault on democracy and the rule of law.
At the end of the day this. I don't think the doc was trying to hide it too much either, which is why the hotel bombing mislead was strange. I don't know if that has to do with the Muslim angle or the cult angle.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 11:09 am to JBeam
quote:
The hotel bombing happen in June '83 and the Bioterror attack happen in '84.
Yes, but they're unrelated. Any implication to the contrary is misleading, IMHO.
The only context the bombing has is to - perhaps - provide some measure for explaining the paranoia some of the cult leaders/members felt. The bio terror attack was not a "response" or a "defense" - it was the way the cult operated.
Posted on 3/28/18 at 12:19 pm to Ace Midnight
I just finished the 2nd episode and I just have one question. Where did they get all this money to build the city and buy all this land? Did I miss where they explained this?
Posted on 3/28/18 at 12:20 pm to Civildawg
quote:
Where did they get all this money to build the city and buy all this land? Did I miss where they explained this?
Not directly. This article goes into it. They were basically a business and had a lot of rich people that bought into them.
LINK
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 12:24 pm
Page 4 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News