re: “When they see us” Netflix -- Political Discussion -- Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

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Why are you specifying merely physical evidence?

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because physical evidence is scientifically reliable unlike confessions and witness testimony which are notoriously unreliable?

Here is some of the evidence against them from the NYDA's filing to set aside the convictions.

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Each of the defendants was questioned by detectives and made one or more statements. All five of the defendants implicated themselves in a number of the crimes which had occurred in the park. None of them admitted actually raping the Central Park jogger, but each gave an account of events in which he made himself an accomplice to the crime.

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Did you know that three of them were convicted of other attacks in the same trial? Should we just ignore the fact that three of them also had guilty verdicts passed down for 5 other charges unrelated to the Central Park jogger that were just as serious?

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On June 25, 1990, Antron McCray, Yusef Salaam, and Raymond Santana proceeded to a joint trial before the Honorable Thomas Galligan. On August 18, 1990, after ten days of deliberations, the jury convicted each defendant of one count of Assault in the First Degree and Rape in the First Degree for the attack on the Central Park jogger; Robbery in the First Degree and three assault charges for the attack on John Loughlin; Assault in the Second Degree for the attack on David Lewis; and Riot in the First Degree. It acquitted each defendant of Attempted Murder and Sodomy as to the female jogger, and was instructed by the judge not to consider the other, lesser included counts. Since each was under 16 years of age, the court, on September 11, 1990, set aside all their convictions except those for First Degree Robbery and Rape

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Does it matter that all but one of them appealed their cases and lost? If they all thought they are innocent, how do you explain that one of them never sought appeals?

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Yusef Salaam's conviction was affirmed by the Appellate Division (187 A.D.2d 363) and by the Court of Appeals (83 N.Y. 2d 51). Antron McCray's conviction was also affirmed by the Appellate Division (198 A.D.2d 200), and the Court of Appeals denied leave to appeal. The same is true of the conviction of Kharey Wise (204 A.D.2d 133). Kevin Richardson's conviction was affirmed by the Appellate Division (202 A.D.2d 207). Raymond Santana never perfected an appeal.

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Does it matter to you that the DNA evidence was presented at trial as not belonging to these men, and yet they were still convicted? If the fact that the DNA did not belong to these men was exculpatory, then why did the juries still find them guilty?

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DNA evidence was extracted from semen deposited on the jogger's sock, found near her at the crime scene. It did not match any of the defendants, or any other known sample.* The same was true of DNA evidence extracted from a cervical swab; it did not match the defendants or any other known sample. Expert testimony at trial, however, established that the DNA from both the victim and the sock appeared to have come from the same source. Testimony also established that the DNA was not a mixture; it was from a single source, meaning that only one individual had ejaculated. A pubic hair found on the sock was also examined microscopically. It was likewise found to be inconsistent with the defendants and every other known source. The known samples included samples from all of the individuals whom the defendants had specifically named as rapists.

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Richardson actually did have the joggers hair on his clothing.

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Richardson's clothing yielded nine human hairs, all of which were examined microscopically. Six were not consistent with the jogger. Three others, one from his underwear, one from his t-shirt, and one from his blue jeans, were found by the examiner to be consistent with the jogger's hair.

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How much do you need to prove to you that these guys deserved their sentences and do not deserve your pity? It's all there for you to see, even in the filing that set aside their convictions. You don't even have to imagine it. It's clearly there for you to read for yourself.

Here's an interview with the original prosecutor: LINK

Does it matter to you that during their confessions they also confessed to an assault the police weren't even aware of yet? This is one of the other crimes three of the five were convicted of. Was that coerced also?

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The ex-prosecutor notes that the teens questioned by law enforcement made spontaneous statements about events in the park that night before law enforcement became aware of what happened. Some of the teens described beating a male jogger wearing an army-type jacket as he went for a run around the reservoir.

“At the time, we didn’t know about him,” Clements said. “We were still gathering facts.” Cops checked hospitals and later found the reservoir jogger was victim John Loughlin, beaten so badly that his head was covered with blood.

In another instance, some of the teens said they tried to attack another male jogger who asked the youths if they wanted to race before sprinting away.

“He doesn’t come forward until a couple of days later,” Clements said. “Before that, some of the kids talked about attacking him. They identified their own victims. In many of the cases, we didn’t know who the victims were, so how do the police coerce statements from people about facts that they weren’t even aware of?”

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We are discussing the rape case here.

Most people are fine with the robbery and riot charges.

Stop conflating the 2.

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My contention is that they are guilty of rape even if they did not specifically rape her. I've never made the claim that they actually performed the rape. Their actions led to someone being raped. They deserved to be punished for that.

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That's not true at all.

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link me this witness to the rape

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the only witness testimonies were concerning the robberies/riot charges from earlier in the night

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=/=

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link me this witness to the rape

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You moved the goalposts here. There were others who were arrested who named at least one of the Central Park 5 as the ones who assaulted the jogger. I never claimed there were witnesses to the rape, although at least 2 of the Central Park 5 did claim to witness raping of the jogger. Probably more of them, but only 2 that I can recall off the top of my head.

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There were others who were arrested who named at least one of the Central Park 5 as the ones who assaulted the jogger. I never claimed there were witnesses to the rape, although at least 2 of the Central Park 5 did claim to witness raping of the jogger. Probably more of them, but only 2 that I can recall off the top of my head.

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My bad.

I didn't realize we were talking about the other kids that were arrested as "witnesses" considering the inconsistency in their testimonies.

I thought we were talking about bystanders.

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Yet several of the boys accused others of raping her, although no DNA evidence was found other than that of Reyes.

Why shouldn't this make you question the accuracy of their confessions?

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I'm not convinced they didn't. Their confessions led to convictions on other cases the police weren't even aware of. Just because they didn't leave any semen doesn't mean they didn't rape her. That is quite a logical leap. Unfortunately, nothing was further investigated once Reyes came forward so we can only go off of the previous investigations that are not very favorable to the Central Park 5.

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Good thing I didn't make that leap.

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Oh my bad I misread what you said. I'm not sure what to make of them accusing others of raping the jogger, except that I've seen quite a few confessions where they originally tried to pin the crime on someone else. We'd be throwing out a whole lot of confessions if we threw out every confession where someone else was named first.

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To brush it aside saying they were doing some not so good things in the park is like saying the Holocaust was a bunch of people taking showers

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yikes