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re: Wheel of Time - Season 1 - Amazon - NOW A BOOK READERS THREAD
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:43 pm to ChexMix
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:43 pm to ChexMix
quote:
this show is not the Wheel of Time. Its woke as frick and everything woke, turns to shite
The books were "woke" then (and they certainly were at the time of publication). They had lesbians, polyamory, women in power and a very racially diverse world.
You may not have read it that way or understood it, but it was all very much in the text.
This post was edited on 12/11/21 at 2:45 pm
2
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:49 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
The books were "woke" then (and they certainly were at the time of publication). They had lesbians, polyamory, women in power and a very racially diverse world.
You may not have read it that way or understood it, but it was all very much in the text
I’ve said this 10+ times.
The difference is that Jordan was just writing it as normal.
Amazon is doing it and patting themselves on the back for it.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:50 pm to 3nOut
I don't get that feeling, everything has felt pretty natural to me and just the way the world is.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:53 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Eh. I get that feeling. It does feel overt and self masturbatory at times.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:53 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Ehh I feel like they’ve added some for the benefit of todays age.
Look of characters mattered, and randomly inserting black characters in Two Rivers makes 0 sense.
Look of characters mattered, and randomly inserting black characters in Two Rivers makes 0 sense.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:54 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Tuon is black. The Seanchan are more multi racial I think than most Randland societies.
I think the whole ruling family / high blood is black actually.
I know that Tear is very racially diverse.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:55 pm to 3nOut
It doesn’t make any logical sense. Whatever race the two rivers Is should be consistent. They’ve been pretty much isolated for 1000 years. Ethnic diversity is totally illogical there.
But that’s not the kind of stuff I choose to get butthurt about.
I’m enjoying the show. It’s gotten better with each episode.
I do have problems with it though.
But that’s not the kind of stuff I choose to get butthurt about.
I’m enjoying the show. It’s gotten better with each episode.
I do have problems with it though.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 2:58 pm to 3nOut
quote:
Ehh I feel like they’ve added some for the benefit of todays age.
Look of characters mattered, and randomly inserting black characters in Two Rivers makes 0 sense.
It actually has a pretty solid basis - a bunch of pale white characters would have been completely wrong.
Elaida in Book 1 says two rivers people seldom have such Pale skin when she lifts up Rand's sleeve. Egwene and Nyn are described as dark.
Cenn Bui is described as "dark as an old gnarled root" - which is the same term Jordan used to describe much of the lower class of Tear - who were black.
Also, Path of Daggers states that Andor's first queen was as dark as a Sea Folk.
Then, if we just think about how the world was created out of a racially diverse age of legends, with the breaking serving to distribute and mix people's / cultures - it makes a lot of sense.
Technically I guess all the characters are some weird race resulting from 5000 years of genetic mixing from today's age. But that sounds like a little difficult to cast to match.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 3:02 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
It doesn’t make any logical sense. Whatever race the two rivers Is should be consistent. They’ve been pretty much isolated for 1000 years. Ethnic diversity is totally illogical there.
There are actually some strong arguments against this hypothesis relative to the racial mix of Two Rivers if you read some of the deep dives done by the supernerd theoryland type people and using the texts and Jordan's interviews.
It really does not matter though in the end - race was so seldom mentioned in the series, it is clear that it was not supposed to have any impact on the story.
Youtube
^ That is Matt w/ Dusty Wheel doing a deep dive into everything out there from notes, interviews, books, etc. (some of which I referenced above). It is on Daniel Green's Channell, but you can jump to 10:00 to just get Matt's analysis of essentially every mention of race and skin color he could find (there are very, very few). He collated and compiled a lot of the different stuff out there.
I've certainly got some issues with stuff cut, glossed over, insert, etc.But overall, its been a good show so far - the storyline is still pretty much following the outline of the books with some stuff combined, in different orders,
The big thing is, to me, they have gotten the characterizations of most all of my favorites done really well. I'm loving the scenes like the fall of Manetheren, Matt and Perrin in Shadar Logoth, Nyn telling Rand the story about Egwene's fever. All of that stuff feels really on point.
If they keep up all that, I'm not too worried about most all of my complaints thus far.
This post was edited on 12/11/21 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 12/11/21 at 3:51 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
If they keep up all that, I'm not too worried about most all of my complaints thus far.
Oh I’m mostly the same. I rage pretty hard against whole culture and forced inclusion and diversity but I realize it’s a part of the world we live in. I can either choose to enjoy it and roll my eyes at times, or just divorce myself from culture and entertainment all together. As much as a misanthrope as I am at heart, I love people and view all as God’s creation. While I think a lot of Rafe’s changes are virtue signaling and unnecessary (considering the source material) it’s not enough to make me shut it off.
I.e. playing around with the races in Bridgerton or WoT doesn’t bother me a ton because they aren’t making it about the race or genders (assuming they don’t change the gender of the Dragon Reborn*)
Screwing around with the race/gender and then making that the point (Ghostbusters) does bother me.
* my wife asked me after this last episode who the DR was from the books. I asked her who she thought it was and who she thought it definitely wasn’t. She said she thought that it was Nynaeve and definitely NOT Rand. Didn’t spoil it for her.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 11:56 pm to 3nOut
I’m not here to dive into the book vs show debate, just popping in to say Rosamund looks damn good in that all blue.
Also, that Indian actress who plays Alanna makes it move for me.
Also, that Indian actress who plays Alanna makes it move for me.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 7:48 am to ChexMix
quote:In the book: The first time he channeled was to call lightning to escape darkfriends
. Rand channeling for the first time to give Egwenes horse stamina to escape the drakar
In the show: Rand used saidin to break the "impossible to break" door when faced with the darkfriend
Posted on 12/13/21 at 7:54 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:They have turned her into the book Nyneave. . .finally
Nyneave coming across as this interesting mix of smart, arrogant, insecure and afraid for her friends - spot on with the books IMO.
They are not doing great with Lan, who was my favorite EotW character. Interesting to note, I always pictured him as an asian dude. . .not sure why.
quote:All true
Rand and Matt's interaction, Loial's verbiage, cadence and everything was perfect IMO.
But they are not doing great with Mat's roguish, rakish nature.
quote:He is the best character on the show so far. . .by alot
Perrin is going to be the most challenging moving forward because I just don't know how they will handle where his story takes him - he was always my least favorite of the main Emond's Fielders though.
PS: Liandrin has the most square head in human history. My son said she looks like a Minecraft character. Good actress, though.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 7:59 am to Sneaky__Sally
Every region has a specific look, I hope they keep that.
Trying to make all the areas internally diverse would be a mistake.
I had this concern after seeing the Two Rivers. Feel a bit better with Loial calling Rand an Aielman. It means Aiel have a specific look.
Trying to make all the areas internally diverse would be a mistake.
I had this concern after seeing the Two Rivers. Feel a bit better with Loial calling Rand an Aielman. It means Aiel have a specific look.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 9:02 am to Roaad
They show an Aiel fighting in the Full Trailer. Its pretty spot on.
Posted on 12/13/21 at 10:20 am to Roaad
quote:
Every region has a specific look, I hope they keep that.
Trying to make all the areas internally diverse would be a mistake.
I had this concern after seeing the Two Rivers. Feel a bit better with Loial calling Rand an Aielman. It means Aiel have a specific look.
Ya, but the Aeil are pretty unique in that specific look (I hope there are a lot of decent red haired actors / actresses available).
But the racial makeup is largely unaddressed outside of some generic descriptions. Domani are generally described as coppery skinned, Ghealdean / Two Rivers / portions of Almoth Plain are described as being primarily different generic shades of light brown - but typically there are examples of racial diversity in his notes and the text.
Every region has a specific and unique cultural look - each taking several different items from the real world in different combinations. If the show glosses over the cultural identity, it would be a significant change to the underlying worldbuilding that would annoy me a lot.
In any case, everyone is free to read and interpret as they see fit, just figured I would throw out some of the different references to racial make up and interpretations to the conversation as I don't think its all as straightforward or specifically outlined as described in a lot of the online conversations.
This post was edited on 12/13/21 at 10:30 am
Posted on 12/13/21 at 10:29 am to Roaad
quote:
quote:
Nyneave coming across as this interesting mix of smart, arrogant, insecure and afraid for her friends - spot on with the books IMO.
They have turned her into the book Nyneave. . .finally
They are not doing great with Lan, who was my favorite EotW character. Interesting to note, I always pictured him as an asian dude. . .not sure why.
quote:
Rand and Matt's interaction, Loial's verbiage, cadence and everything was perfect IMO.
All true
But they are not doing great with Mat's roguish, rakish nature.
quote:
Perrin is going to be the most challenging moving forward because I just don't know how they will handle where his story takes him - he was always my least favorite of the main Emond's Fielders though.
He is the best character on the show so far. . .by alot
PS: Liandrin has the most square head in human history. My son said she looks like a Minecraft character. Good actress, though.
Ya they are nailing Liandrin.
I think Matt has been fantastic thus far in his timing, interaction with Rand and Perrin, etc.
Really disappointed in the recast. His backstory / parents I still don't love, I'm holding off judgement pending finding out why he didn't enter the ways. He certainly isn't needed to be with the group, but am unsure of where they are going with this - have to assume some dagger storyline and they may kickstart the Great Hunt with the theft , but this time from tower?
Posted on 12/13/21 at 10:36 am to Sneaky__Sally
Forgot to post my episode 6 thoughts in this thread:
-Episode 6 Spoilers-
I know people are tired of hearing people complain about book changes, but man, the changes are very frustrating. Moiraine crying and romanticizing in the Hall of the Tower is never something she would do in a million years. These are the least calm and "in control" Aes Sedai I would have expected. I did think her relationship with Siuan was going to be puffed up for the show.
Also, Mat not going in the ways... This is just because of Barney Harris leaving the show? Him being healed of the dagger looked cool, but definitely thought they were going to use the dagger healing to explain the new actor. It also seemed to be really easy for Moiraine to do which definitely isn't true.
Outside of the characterization changes, I don't really understand the time allocation. It feels like they're focusing so much on minor characters to "hide" who the Dragon is that the boys have had nearly zero development. I think this episode was my least favorite.
As for the conversation about skin color, it's really not that important. I do wish people wouldn't immediately think dark or tan skin is what we call black, but that seems to be what every one is doing. We know that the Sea Folk and many Seanchan were black, and that Tairen were reminisce of Spain (very tan white people and black people intermixed). Egwene and Nyneave were never considered PoC (by our language) until the TV adaptation.
-Episode 6 Spoilers-
I know people are tired of hearing people complain about book changes, but man, the changes are very frustrating. Moiraine crying and romanticizing in the Hall of the Tower is never something she would do in a million years. These are the least calm and "in control" Aes Sedai I would have expected. I did think her relationship with Siuan was going to be puffed up for the show.
Also, Mat not going in the ways... This is just because of Barney Harris leaving the show? Him being healed of the dagger looked cool, but definitely thought they were going to use the dagger healing to explain the new actor. It also seemed to be really easy for Moiraine to do which definitely isn't true.
Outside of the characterization changes, I don't really understand the time allocation. It feels like they're focusing so much on minor characters to "hide" who the Dragon is that the boys have had nearly zero development. I think this episode was my least favorite.
As for the conversation about skin color, it's really not that important. I do wish people wouldn't immediately think dark or tan skin is what we call black, but that seems to be what every one is doing. We know that the Sea Folk and many Seanchan were black, and that Tairen were reminisce of Spain (very tan white people and black people intermixed). Egwene and Nyneave were never considered PoC (by our language) until the TV adaptation.
This post was edited on 12/15/21 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 12/13/21 at 10:45 am to oauron
quote:He isn't healed, iirc. She severed the connection
Him being healed of the dagger
Same thing she did in the book.
Takes a team of healers to heal him
Posted on 12/13/21 at 10:51 am to Fun Bunch
Each episode had been getting better and better to me, outside of Maksims(?) memorial. That was incredibly stupid with the room starting to pound their chest one by one. But that wasnt a huge scene so its not like it was a big deal, it was just forced.
But this last episode was the worst by far. Almost every scene was painful. Especially the scenes/trials in the White Tower. Every time something semi shocking was announced the whole room would gasp. Cut the camera to one person "ooh", cut to nest person "ahh", cut to next person "ooo". They did that like 5 times. Like seriously, enough already. That was just bad writing and directing.
As i've said multiple times before, im not trying to act like a super knowledgeable book reader, im only completely done with book one. But this show feels absolutely nothing like the book. Like nothing.
Its still a good/decent show, definitely worth watching, but I dont even think it should even be compared to the books. This is the writers saying I think my story is better than Jordans. I hate comparing this to Game of Thrones, just because I dont think its really fair to compare it to the most epic show in TV history and what most (not me) consider to be the gold standard. That being said, season 5 of GoT was more accurate to the books than this is to the 1st book. Season 5 was a bad take on ASoIaF, but it at least felt like GoT. This doesnt even have the feel of book one, which means its only going to get further and further away.
But this last episode was the worst by far. Almost every scene was painful. Especially the scenes/trials in the White Tower. Every time something semi shocking was announced the whole room would gasp. Cut the camera to one person "ooh", cut to nest person "ahh", cut to next person "ooo". They did that like 5 times. Like seriously, enough already. That was just bad writing and directing.
As i've said multiple times before, im not trying to act like a super knowledgeable book reader, im only completely done with book one. But this show feels absolutely nothing like the book. Like nothing.
Its still a good/decent show, definitely worth watching, but I dont even think it should even be compared to the books. This is the writers saying I think my story is better than Jordans. I hate comparing this to Game of Thrones, just because I dont think its really fair to compare it to the most epic show in TV history and what most (not me) consider to be the gold standard. That being said, season 5 of GoT was more accurate to the books than this is to the 1st book. Season 5 was a bad take on ASoIaF, but it at least felt like GoT. This doesnt even have the feel of book one, which means its only going to get further and further away.
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