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re: Wheel of Time - Season 1 - Amazon - NOW A BOOK READERS THREAD
Posted on 12/3/21 at 4:27 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 12/3/21 at 4:27 pm to Fun Bunch
E4 isn't a bad episode although the non-readers seemed to find it too slow. I'm a little disappointed in Loial (expected him to be bigger, but since they've down-sized Rand I guess this will just have to suffice) but his continued speaking in the background during Rand and Nynaeve's reunion made me smile.
I still think they are having Lan show too much emotion. He should be more stoic in the vein Cavill's Witcher. That would make the slow dance between he and Nynaeve mean more as well as give his occasional lines more weight.
I still think they are having Lan show too much emotion. He should be more stoic in the vein Cavill's Witcher. That would make the slow dance between he and Nynaeve mean more as well as give his occasional lines more weight.
1
Posted on 12/3/21 at 8:29 pm to Bard
I didn't realize the thread was on this board but a couple ideas after watching episode 5 I am bringing over from the other reader thread.
SOME SPOILERS FOR THE SERIES BELOW (are we doing full spoilers /theories in this thread?) I'm really confused regarding where to post shite and will delete this if I need to - went back in and edited to conceal the more spoilery stuff.
I think Valda may have some sort of ter'angreal like the foxhead medallion?
I wonder if that is how he has been able to kill the aes sedai, it didn't look like Egwene's lil flame made any mark on his chest is what made me jump to that but just wild speculation.
Valda also said something like "what makes you think I would keep to my oaths" (not exact verbage) so that could be a reference since the Whitecloaks don't associate with things of the power.
Also, he said "you will need to channel more than that to harm me" (again, not exact) which could indicate that his medallion is not as effective the main one from the books - just like the copies made later in the books didn't work as well.
Fain is also really subtly input several times, I missed him until I re-watched again. They also played his little whistling cadence Shadar Logoth after Matt gives Perrin the knife from Leila. I don't know if that is just a little nod to the books or maybe they are layering in some stuff for a reveal later.
I'm starting to get intrigued - could be more going on than meets the eye and setting up for a reveal later - or it may just be throwing in some subtle book references. Hard to tell at this point but it potentially may be pretty smart writing / foreshadowing in some cases if they follow through.
SOME SPOILERS FOR THE SERIES BELOW (are we doing full spoilers /theories in this thread?) I'm really confused regarding where to post shite and will delete this if I need to - went back in and edited to conceal the more spoilery stuff.
I think Valda may have some sort of ter'angreal like the foxhead medallion?
I wonder if that is how he has been able to kill the aes sedai, it didn't look like Egwene's lil flame made any mark on his chest is what made me jump to that but just wild speculation.
Valda also said something like "what makes you think I would keep to my oaths" (not exact verbage) so that could be a reference since the Whitecloaks don't associate with things of the power.
Also, he said "you will need to channel more than that to harm me" (again, not exact) which could indicate that his medallion is not as effective the main one from the books - just like the copies made later in the books didn't work as well.
Fain is also really subtly input several times, I missed him until I re-watched again. They also played his little whistling cadence Shadar Logoth after Matt gives Perrin the knife from Leila. I don't know if that is just a little nod to the books or maybe they are layering in some stuff for a reveal later.
I'm starting to get intrigued - could be more going on than meets the eye and setting up for a reveal later - or it may just be throwing in some subtle book references. Hard to tell at this point but it potentially may be pretty smart writing / foreshadowing in some cases if they follow through.
This post was edited on 12/3/21 at 10:38 pm
Posted on 12/3/21 at 10:14 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Also, as I said earlier in the other thread, the showrunner and his lead researcher, Sara Nakamura, really do know the story and characters very well.
This last episode should have settled a lot of fears some have brought up with Moiraine and Liandrins discussion regarding men, Nyneave and Rand's interaction and tons of other subtle hints highlighting character traits.
Nyneave coming across as this interesting mix of smart, arrogant, insecure and afraid for her friends - spot on with the books IMO.
Egwene's reaction to Valda felt right for her.
Rand and Matt's interaction, Loial's verbiage, cadence and everything was perfect IMO.
Perrin is going to be the most challenging moving forward because I just don't know how they will handle where his story takes him - he was always my least favorite of the main Emond's Fielders though.
This last episode should have settled a lot of fears some have brought up with Moiraine and Liandrins discussion regarding men, Nyneave and Rand's interaction and tons of other subtle hints highlighting character traits.
Nyneave coming across as this interesting mix of smart, arrogant, insecure and afraid for her friends - spot on with the books IMO.
Egwene's reaction to Valda felt right for her.
Rand and Matt's interaction, Loial's verbiage, cadence and everything was perfect IMO.
Perrin is going to be the most challenging moving forward because I just don't know how they will handle where his story takes him - he was always my least favorite of the main Emond's Fielders though.
This post was edited on 12/3/21 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 12/4/21 at 11:10 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Sara Nakamura, really do know the story and characters very well.
Aside from my continual gripe about Lan's character seeming to give only lip-service to being stoic, I think they should have laid out the whole "Darkfriends" thing out from the get-go. They are a major story driver and have only been mentioned a handful of times (and that's including the woman in the mining town). It's going to be hard to have Fain matter until they begin underscoring this a bit more for the viewers.
During the first episode there should have been a discussion somewhere in there talking about Darkfriends, maybe even having a character (like Rand, to help emphasis his eventual resistance to Moiraine) have the mistaken belief that Aes Sedai are Darkfriends then have another character correct him (and then a couple times later when he tries to bring it up).
I understand the changes in events and how that's a slightly different story, but they are rushing the good, meaty, tension-laden story parts to focus on the parts which are much slower (and then they draw them out even more).
Posted on 12/4/21 at 11:45 am to Bard
I was thinking the same thing, but a lot of little stuff has been layered in on some re-watch.
It was definitely way too rushed in the first two episodes, but I am really liking the pacing now. And as I said before, I'm just not choosing to outline everything I would have done differently, what I would have highlighted instead, cut instead, etc. at this point since there are so many different ways this adaption could be approached.
I think we are going to get some reveals (maybe even flashbacks showing other evens in locations we have already visited) coming up that are meant to drive home the idea that darkfriends are everywhere - curious to see what happens next episode as Sanderson said it was his favorite of the season.
Regarding Lan (and I completely understand where you are coming from), my hunch is that they are showing some emotion from him now so that non-readers understand that he actually does have emotional responses later when he maintains a more even demeanor.
The Lan thing at the end wasn't my favorite and I could have gone without it, but I got the feeling there was even potentially some sort of power involved in the ritual - like he was channeling (for lack of a better term) the other warder's pain so that they could release it and get on with their duties (this idea is probably influenced by certain events in the Malazan series though). This is just my interpretation of it given that they were in the tower, potentially with ter'angreal present and the ritualistic, almost religious nature of that ceremony
If Lan had found the body and dropped down and done the yelling thing I would be more with you all in terms of it being a really terrible characterization for him. But he maintained his stoicism really well in that moment - which is certainly a very tough point in time finding a friend who had committed suicide who you had been trying to watch over.
It was definitely way too rushed in the first two episodes, but I am really liking the pacing now. And as I said before, I'm just not choosing to outline everything I would have done differently, what I would have highlighted instead, cut instead, etc. at this point since there are so many different ways this adaption could be approached.
I think we are going to get some reveals (maybe even flashbacks showing other evens in locations we have already visited) coming up that are meant to drive home the idea that darkfriends are everywhere - curious to see what happens next episode as Sanderson said it was his favorite of the season.
Regarding Lan (and I completely understand where you are coming from), my hunch is that they are showing some emotion from him now so that non-readers understand that he actually does have emotional responses later when he maintains a more even demeanor.
The Lan thing at the end wasn't my favorite and I could have gone without it, but I got the feeling there was even potentially some sort of power involved in the ritual - like he was channeling (for lack of a better term) the other warder's pain so that they could release it and get on with their duties (this idea is probably influenced by certain events in the Malazan series though). This is just my interpretation of it given that they were in the tower, potentially with ter'angreal present and the ritualistic, almost religious nature of that ceremony
If Lan had found the body and dropped down and done the yelling thing I would be more with you all in terms of it being a really terrible characterization for him. But he maintained his stoicism really well in that moment - which is certainly a very tough point in time finding a friend who had committed suicide who you had been trying to watch over.
This post was edited on 12/4/21 at 11:50 am
Posted on 12/4/21 at 12:07 pm to Fun Bunch
I, for one, am excited to see the 3 girls lez out. I wonder if this means that the whole aviendha/elayne first sisters plot gets cut cause that could be awkward.
Posted on 12/4/21 at 12:53 pm to Babble
Hopefully we still get a version of that scene just tweaked to make more sense. That was a great moment in the books.
I just dont get why the show wouldnt axe the awful 4way relationship. Very few WOT fans like it and it would save a tremendous amount of screen time that could go toward better storylines. Instead, not only are we going to get scenes with Rand/each of the girls, we are adding girl/girl scenes as well.
Just cut the relationship in the middle, Elayne/Aviendha and Rand/Min. Makes so much sense.
I just dont get why the show wouldnt axe the awful 4way relationship. Very few WOT fans like it and it would save a tremendous amount of screen time that could go toward better storylines. Instead, not only are we going to get scenes with Rand/each of the girls, we are adding girl/girl scenes as well.
Just cut the relationship in the middle, Elayne/Aviendha and Rand/Min. Makes so much sense.
Posted on 12/5/21 at 3:37 pm to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Egwene's reaction to Valda felt right for her.
Felt right for Egwene several books and years down the line. Her role and strength is being played up so much for the show. This was expected whenever Rafe said she was his favorite character.
I also did not like the extended Steppin time. Lan's reaction felt super out of character.
This post was edited on 12/5/21 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 12/5/21 at 11:27 pm to oauron
Yea, definitely might be in the minority on this one, but I was always thought the way Egwene became amyrlin was stupid.
She’s an accepted at that point and not even a full-blown sister. I dont think her character had shown enough to the white tower where that remotely even made sense. Keep in mind most of the crazy shite she has done at this point was done behind the scenes and most aes sedai are unaware of what she’s done.
Jordan plays it off as the sisters selected her because they thought they could control her, but why not just select an actual aes sedai if thats the case. It really does make the aes sedai look unbelievably incompetent.
If you’re going to throw tradition out the window, it should be for someone who has shown she’s an incredibly strong and wise woman (which Egwene certainly was not to me and definitely not to the women of the white tower at this point in the books evident by the fact that they thought they could turn her into a puppet)
Dont get me wrong I think she shows a lot of promise, growth, and moments of strength but it kind of is a wtf moment when that happened and not a good wtf moment. I think the transition into her fitting the role is done well but it is kind of sloppy at first.
I really, really disliked the dialogue between her and valda in the tent (partly because it didnt match the egwene at this point in yhe books) but maybe they’re trying to drum up her strength and fierceness as much as possible to smooth out that awkward part of the plot later down the road.
She’s an accepted at that point and not even a full-blown sister. I dont think her character had shown enough to the white tower where that remotely even made sense. Keep in mind most of the crazy shite she has done at this point was done behind the scenes and most aes sedai are unaware of what she’s done.
Jordan plays it off as the sisters selected her because they thought they could control her, but why not just select an actual aes sedai if thats the case. It really does make the aes sedai look unbelievably incompetent.
If you’re going to throw tradition out the window, it should be for someone who has shown she’s an incredibly strong and wise woman (which Egwene certainly was not to me and definitely not to the women of the white tower at this point in the books evident by the fact that they thought they could turn her into a puppet)
Dont get me wrong I think she shows a lot of promise, growth, and moments of strength but it kind of is a wtf moment when that happened and not a good wtf moment. I think the transition into her fitting the role is done well but it is kind of sloppy at first.
I really, really disliked the dialogue between her and valda in the tent (partly because it didnt match the egwene at this point in yhe books) but maybe they’re trying to drum up her strength and fierceness as much as possible to smooth out that awkward part of the plot later down the road.
This post was edited on 12/5/21 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 12/6/21 at 7:28 am to Babble
quote:
Jordan plays it off as the sisters selected her because they thought they could control her, but why not just select an actual aes sedai if thats the case. It really does make the aes sedai look unbelievably incompetent.
At that point, they were. The coming of the Dragon Reborn had poured habanero-spiced jet fuel on their normal politics (even without the machinations of the Black Ajah). Pushing for a leader who is so weak you believe you could control them is exactly the kind of thing which can happen in such an environment of political chaos.
quote:
I really, really disliked the dialogue between her and valda in the tent (partly because it didnt match the egwene at this point in yhe books) but maybe they’re trying to drum up her strength and fierceness as much as possible to smooth out that awkward part of the plot later down the road.
Because I see her election differently, I see this as the opposite. By making her a strong character now, it makes her win, and subsequent growth because of it, too easy. If they continue her on this path then they telegraph the vote to the viewer and it completely screws the dramatics (and importance) of the event by having the Aes Sedai electing an Accepted who is strong-willed.
Remember when the Green told Moiraine how the Tower had changed a lot while she had been gone? That politicking is the change, it's set the Ajahs into ally/enemy stances toward one another which sets the stage for Egwene's eventual election.
Without the political chaos there is more unity and thus no desire (much less pushes coming from multiple sources) for a controllable Amyrlin (again, with multiple sources each thinking they alone can control her) and without that there is no possible path for an Accepted to become Amyrlin.
Posted on 12/6/21 at 8:34 am to Bard
I think my point still stands that it’s just insane that they would select an accepted instead of an Aes Sedai to begin with. There were plenty of easily-controllable Aes Sedai they could have selected.
Really, the only thing that would have that make sense is if she was Ta’veren which she isnt in the books.
Really, the only thing that would have that make sense is if she was Ta’veren which she isnt in the books.
Posted on 12/6/21 at 10:10 am to Babble
I did see something from Rafe recently where he suggested that the original plan was 10 episodes, first episode as long as 2 hours, and they had already mapped that out and started writing and then Amazon execs pulled the rug out a bit and said no, 8 episodes and the pilot is 55 minutes with credits.
It explains why they the pacing is so rushed in the beginning.
It does't absolve him of a lot of things but its pretty clear they needed more time with the first episode or 3.
It explains why they the pacing is so rushed in the beginning.
It does't absolve him of a lot of things but its pretty clear they needed more time with the first episode or 3.
Posted on 12/6/21 at 10:38 am to Babble
quote:
I think my point still stands that it’s just insane that they would select an accepted instead of an Aes Sedai to begin with. There were plenty of easily-controllable Aes Sedai they could have selected.
If that's how you see it, I get it. I just see it differently as they looked at Accepteds as less than Aes Sedai so it makes more sense they would see a weak Accepted as more easily controlled than a weak Aes Sedai.
Posted on 12/6/21 at 12:06 pm to Bard
Wasnt it implied that the rebel Aes sedai selected Egwene because she was an accepted, and thus, if their rebellion failed it would limit the punishment in some way?
I seem to recall Elaida making this point when Egwene is captured.
I seem to recall Elaida making this point when Egwene is captured.
Posted on 12/6/21 at 1:02 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
Wasnt it implied that the rebel Aes sedai selected Egwene because she was an accepted, and thus, if their rebellion failed it would limit the punishment in some way?
I seem to recall Elaida making this point when Egwene is captured.
I think you may be right. Like maybe the Aes Sedai were held to a higher standard (maybe something to do with the Oaths as well)?
Posted on 12/6/21 at 1:10 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
Also because she was childhood friends with the Dragon, and Nynaeve was not a suitable candidate due to her temperment.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 7:31 am to Fun Bunch
Maigan is a good damane
Posted on 12/11/21 at 10:50 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
damane
I just thought about that... The Seanchan seemed to be primarily their own race (Asiatic features but with skin tones more along the lines of Negro/Caucasian mix and Viking-styled hair). Will the show runners keep with their theme of representing as many races as possible for them or will they go for a physical look more closely mirroring the books (see also: Aiel).
Posted on 12/11/21 at 11:20 am to Bard
Tuon is black. The Seanchan are more multi racial I think than most Randland societies.
Posted on 12/11/21 at 12:52 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:such a tryhard
Fun Bunch
this show is not the Wheel of Time. Its woke as frick and everything woke, turns to shite
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