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Started By
Message
re: The Vietnam War (Ken Burns)
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:28 am to TROLA
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:28 am to TROLA
quote:
The documentary clearly states that the fear was more in China than USSR as the Russians were more concerned with Europe. The Chinese were directly supplying the Viet Mingh much like North Korea. The only difference was a lack of direct troop engagement.
I have not been able to watch all of this series up to this point, so this may or may not have been addressed in the series.
I seem to recall at one point early in the conflict the Russians were flying some of the air missions for North Vietnam. Is that correct or am I off base on this one??
2
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:52 am to klrstix
Ken Burns and Lynn Novick were on the Charlie Rose program after last night's episode. The series is streaming in Vietnam with Vietnamese subtitles. They also stated that the Vietnamese are as conflicted about this war as we are, They lost three million people, and despite their motto of "whatever the cost," now they are wondering if they should have put more effort into a negotiated settlement.
Man, the part about the family losing their son was hard to watch. They were never, ever the same after that.
Man, the part about the family losing their son was hard to watch. They were never, ever the same after that.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:11 pm to Napoleon
quote:
Another tidbit is Wilsin in 1919 was approached by Ho chi minh, but Wilson refused his request to intervene.
A lot of tiny mistakes in history.
To be fair, Wilson was an invalid by the time of all of this.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 7:16 pm to Jim Rockford
Last night was the best episode so far. It tore me up when the lady talked about them coming to tell her about her son.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 1:20 am to Othello
quote:
I have a strong interest in Vietnam
So do I.
Do yourself a favor and watch this
Battle of Long Tan
You wont regret that 2 hours.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 7:20 am to ThatMakesSense
quote:
Le French a bunch of pussies waving the white flag to zee Germans but then want to go pick a fight with the little yella people's in Asia.
I knew the French were there before the US and I like how that's a part of Apocalypse Now.
But. I admit I never knew why or what was going on and how it tied into WWII. Nor that the US was supporting Ho Chi Minh nor that we kinda ignored the fact that he just wanted an independent country and he didn't care much about communism.
LOVING THE SHOW.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 7:24 am to mikelbr
quote:
But. I admit I never knew why or what was going on and how it tied into WWII. Nor that the US was supporting Ho Chi Minh nor that we kinda ignored the fact that he just wanted an independent country and he didn't care much about communism.
Vietnam should have just been forced to have its reunification election after the French left. Ho Chi Minh would have won, Vietnam would have been fine, and the US would have had a dramatically different experience in the 1960s.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 7:27 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 7:25 am to arktiger28
quote:
That's horse crap. Despite his left leaning politics his documentaries are pretty straight forward.
Yea no shite. Oliver Stones History is fricking garbage.
Ken Burns is legit.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 7:27 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Vietnam should have just been left alone to have its reunification election after the French left. Ho Chi Minh would have won, Vietnam would have been fine, and the US would have had a dramatically different experience in the 1960s.
But we wouldn't hav grown up worshiping Rambo and Braddock kickin arse in the jungles.
Yea it's eye-opening to my no-history-knowin' arse.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 7:31 am to mikelbr
quote:
But we wouldn't hav grown up worshiping Rambo and Braddock kickin arse in the jungles.
I do wonder...would the counterculture/hippie movements have even existed if Vietnam happened? Would the 1960s have just been an extension of the 1950s?
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:16 am to GetCocky11
I chuckled to myself at the old NVA vet. I always wondered why those guys (US) always smoked? Constantly! It had to smell and give away position all the time.
The Vietnamese soldier pretty much said it was a reason they were so easy to find.
Why did they do that? Was it just a holdover from WW2? Fighting in many places was street to street and you knew where they were so it didn't matter if you were burning one? But in the middle of a quiet and "empty" jungle? That could be smelled for a mile.
The Vietnamese soldier pretty much said it was a reason they were so easy to find.
Why did they do that? Was it just a holdover from WW2? Fighting in many places was street to street and you knew where they were so it didn't matter if you were burning one? But in the middle of a quiet and "empty" jungle? That could be smelled for a mile.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:24 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
I chuckled to myself at the old NVA vet. I always wondered why those guys (US) always smoked? Constantly! It had to smell and give away position all the time.
Yeah, all of the guys who ran recon knew about that. A few days before going into the woods they stopped bathing and using anything scented, even bug spray, and only smoked local cigarettes, if they even chose to.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:30 am to Damone
They also bitched about the M-16. I had heard this before. Why? Why was that gun not tested? What was issued prior? Or was it the M-16 through all of Vietnam?
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:33 am to Damone
Gary Linderer has some good books on reconnaisssance in Vietnam.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:43 am to LSU alum wannabe
Always find the first hand accounts chilling. And Burns unlike others ONLY uses the person to read and talk, not an actor. Unless the person is dead of course. I saw a ww2 documentary a while back that used actors. They used those actors when the soldier was still alive too. To sort of give it a private Ryan time travel type thing I guess.
I prefer the use of the actual person. No actor alive can act that realistically. They all over act. The winces, facial ticks, eye movement. It's all over done with an actor. It's nev r done the same way twice with the real person.
The black soldier describing being shelled with nowhere to run. No trenches. Only small fox holes they dug themselves. Just hearing and waiting. "That's why nothing ever scares me anymore? What's worse than that? What can happen to me?"
I prefer the use of the actual person. No actor alive can act that realistically. They all over act. The winces, facial ticks, eye movement. It's all over done with an actor. It's nev r done the same way twice with the real person.
The black soldier describing being shelled with nowhere to run. No trenches. Only small fox holes they dug themselves. Just hearing and waiting. "That's why nothing ever scares me anymore? What's worse than that? What can happen to me?"
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:44 am to Cdawg
quote:
Gary Linderer has some good books on reconnaisssance in Vietnam.
LRRP stuff is good, but I prefer any and all books written by John Plaster on MAVC-SOG operations. Another good series is the Blackjack series by Jim Donahue about his time in the Mobile Guerrilla Force. All are very good and very detailed. Another good read is the memoir of MOH winner Franklin Miller, who ran recon with SOG for six tours.
All can be found on Amazon for cheap and are quick reads.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 8:45 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
They also bitched about the M-16. I had heard this before. Why? Why was that gun not tested? What was issued prior? Or was it the M-16 through all of Vietnam?
the M16 was fine, the problem was the first batch that were shipped over did not contain ANY cleaning kits because they weren't supposed to need them. Well, that went out the window very quickly as the gas operating system needed to be constantly cleaned and oiled in that environment. Once the cleaning kits and regular maintenance were instituted, the problems pretty much disappeared.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 9:42 am to Drank
I have watched every episode thus far and i've enjoyed them all. I would love to get an accurate accounting of the 7.62 and 5.56 ammo that our side used. I bet for every round that actually hit a NVA or VC fighter about two hundred thousand rounds did not hit any enemy. All that spray and pray shooting is astounding. I was in the USMC 0311 (no combat) and we were taught point of aim point of impact by 1993. My uncle was a Marine infnantry man in Vietnam and he always said he respected the VC and NVA but he despised the arvn guys. Now I know why.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:11 am to Damone
The original M-16 and to a lesser extent the M-16A2 service rifle are very high maintenance rifles. They require constant care, lubing, and cleaning. The AK-47 is a very rugged weapon in comparison, perfect for jungle combat. The NVA and VC did have an advantage in that area. The M-14 was the rifle that was used before the original M-16. My uncle told me some Marines refused to use the M-16 at first and had to be threatened with court martial to give up their M-14's.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:38 am to klrstix
quote:
I seem to recall at one point early in the conflict the Russians were flying some of the air missions for North Vietnam. Is that correct or am I off base on this one??
The Russians were at the least providing technical support for the North Vietnamese air defense network. IDK whether they were directly involved in combat. They were also involved in trying to extract intelligence from American POW's, mostly using Cuban surrogates. One of the most brutal interrogators was a Cuban.
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