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re: The Vietnam War (Ken Burns)

Posted on 9/18/17 at 1:29 pm to
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40922 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 1:29 pm to
It's interesting to look at countries that were colonized by the French and Spanish as opposed to those colonized by the British. By and large, the French/Spanish possessions were (still are, a lot of times) complete trainwrecks upon gaining independence. Whereas, British colonies seemed to fare much better.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53509 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

It's interesting to look at countries that were colonized by the French and Spanish as opposed to those colonized by the British. By and large, the French/Spanish possessions were (still are, a lot of times) complete trainwrecks upon gaining independence. Whereas, British colonies seemed to fare much better.


Between WWII, the First Indochina War, and the Algerian War, the French were basically in a constant state of war from 1939 until the early 1960s.

Both of their colonial wars lasted around 7 years each.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20285 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 1:44 pm to
Will be until the inevitable political comparisons to now start.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40922 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 2:28 pm to
I will be curious to see how much Burns let's his bias show through. The Left in America has always assumed they occupy the moral high ground when it comes to the Vietnam War. It's such a bedrock of their belief system that they won't even acknowledge the sins of their side during that time. The outright support of our enemy (Hanoi Jane being the most egregious example*) as well as the despicable treatment of American servicemen and veterans. They will never admit that Vietnam was, in fact, a winnable war. A lot has to do with the Left's belief in Marxist ideals and support for the Soviet bloc countries.


The Right - or, at least, the anti-Communists in America - definitely screwed the pooch when it comes to Vietnam. But I think their mistakes were more of a misreading of the tea leaves and knee jerk Cold War thinking. Personally, I thinkmtheres damn few places worth getting 18 year old American boys killed over. Vietnam ain't one of them. But you have to look at it through the lens of Cold War thinking and it is understable how terrible mistakes were made that got us in that mess.














*In fact, Burns' treatment of Jane Fonda will be a litmus test. I think he's going to softsell her treasonous behavior and paint her in a somewhat sympathetic light. But, we'll see. I've loved everything he has done so far.
Posted by Drank
Member since Jun 1864
Member since Dec 2012
12344 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 7:11 pm to
Episode 2 on now.

or Stream it here


Episode 2: Riding the Tiger (1961-1963)
Posted by Meursault
Member since Sep 2003
25261 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 8:29 pm to
Episodes 1 through 5 should be streaming on PBS. I think the rest of them are available after Thursday. I could be wrong on that though.
Posted by dr smartass phd
RIP 8/19
Member since Sep 2004
20387 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 8:52 pm to
1 through 5 are available right now
Posted by arktiger28
Member since Aug 2005
5401 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 10:09 pm to
By the time I get my kids to sleep and hit the recliner for this it puts me right to sleep. I'm not saying it is boring or bad by any means. Ken Burns docs just go at such a relaxing pace. I guess I need to try watching them earlier in the day.
Posted by SEC. 593
Chicago
Member since Aug 2012
4398 posts
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:26 pm to
quote:

 They will never admit that Vietnam was, in fact, a winnable war.


The minute the US supported the French efforts to keep control it became an unwinnable war.
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
65329 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 12:29 am to
What a contemptible, horrible person, but dammitt, I'd hit it. I'd hit it!

Posted by LSU alum wannabe
Katy, TX
Member since Jan 2004
27780 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 8:00 am to
quote:

More agenda-based slanted history garbage from Ken Burns? No thanks. Would rather watch a documentary on the history of paper clips




How many years must pass before this accusation can't be made? World War One?

I thought the first episode was pretty good. Too much footage from people who lived it to be poo-poo'ed in my opinion.

I did not know about the early stuff with the family in charge of that first province. I knew monks were burning themselves, but never heard the whole story as to why.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53509 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:15 am to
quote:

By the time I get my kids to sleep and hit the recliner for this it puts me right to sleep. I'm not saying it is boring or bad by any means. Ken Burns docs just go at such a relaxing pace. I guess I need to try watching them earlier in the day.


I know exactly what you mean. I think the first 2 episodes have been great, but by the time I hit the couch at night to watch this after a long day, I'm fighting sleep hard.
Posted by dr smartass phd
RIP 8/19
Member since Sep 2004
20387 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:45 am to
Episodes 3 and 4 are fantastic.
Posted by BlackPawnMartyr
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2010
16305 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:56 am to
Ive watched eps 1-3 and have been loving this series. Really enjoyed seeing Philip Caputo, a marine and writer of Rumor of War one of the best books ive read on this subject.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:16 am
Posted by dr smartass phd
RIP 8/19
Member since Sep 2004
20387 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:14 am to
Burns covered Ia Drang very well
Posted by Othello
the Neptonian Steel Mines
Member since Aug 2013
25049 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:21 am to
That's just not true about British colonies fairing better. India was a huge fricking mess. Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) was a disaster and still is. There are many more examples. Bottom line is all countries got sick of their Western colonial masters and eventually fought for independence.
Posted by Blue Velvet
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
20112 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:39 am to
Please take your revisionist drivel to the poliboard.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40922 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:54 pm to
I've watched 1 & 2 so far. I like it a lot. He does a good job of illustrating how the US painted themselves into a corner by espousing independence and freedom for former colonial peoples while at the same time maintaining a hardline Cold War stance. Plus, the Korean War was successful enough (fighting back the Communists in Asia) it was easier to overlook these were entirely two different conflicts. Just a tragic chain of miscalculations and missteps got us where we were.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40922 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 2:55 pm to
Wtf are you talking about?
Posted by ZappBrannigan
Member since Jun 2015
7692 posts
Posted on 9/19/17 at 3:21 pm to


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