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re: The official Interstellar thread (spoilers)
Posted on 11/23/14 at 3:04 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 11/23/14 at 3:04 am to theunknownknight
You misunderstand.
People who react that way and feel that aren't doing so because they react strongly to minor things.
It means that they are engrossed on the emotional level to the point that the movie IS real to them. They intellectually know it isn't, but you get drawn in nonetheless.
It's no different from "rooting for" a favorite character from a book.
People who react that way and feel that aren't doing so because they react strongly to minor things.
It means that they are engrossed on the emotional level to the point that the movie IS real to them. They intellectually know it isn't, but you get drawn in nonetheless.
It's no different from "rooting for" a favorite character from a book.
1
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:00 am to Volvagia
saw it last night
putting aside the suspension of disbelief required to digest the major plot advancement, to me there were a few unnecessary stretches of science
1) the range effortlessly lands and takes off from alien planets with similar gravity to earth, but it takes a Saturn-type booster rocket to leave earth? Why?
2) the 3 planets orbit a super massive black hole. Where then does heat and light come from to make the planets habitable? It can't be from the accretion disc because cooper flies right thru it. If it were hot enough to sustain a planet, it would have fried him immediately
3) the whole sequence on the water planet was dumb science and unnecessary. The orbit, the tides and even the existence of the planet itself that close to the black hole is just not possible according to what we understand about the gravitational forces around it
otherwise I really enjoyed the movie. I agree that the only reasonable explanation of the ending is that the hole is closed and mankind is now on 2 completely unconnected evolutionary paths
putting aside the suspension of disbelief required to digest the major plot advancement, to me there were a few unnecessary stretches of science
1) the range effortlessly lands and takes off from alien planets with similar gravity to earth, but it takes a Saturn-type booster rocket to leave earth? Why?
2) the 3 planets orbit a super massive black hole. Where then does heat and light come from to make the planets habitable? It can't be from the accretion disc because cooper flies right thru it. If it were hot enough to sustain a planet, it would have fried him immediately
3) the whole sequence on the water planet was dumb science and unnecessary. The orbit, the tides and even the existence of the planet itself that close to the black hole is just not possible according to what we understand about the gravitational forces around it
otherwise I really enjoyed the movie. I agree that the only reasonable explanation of the ending is that the hole is closed and mankind is now on 2 completely unconnected evolutionary paths
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:07 am to cgrand
I think I need to see it again today.
1) is 100% correct. In addition, they screwed up on the physics of the launch.
2 I am not sure of.
The accretion disc can very easily be the source of heat and light for the star system. And I am not talking about extreme cases. Accretion discs often put out more energy than stars.
If he flew threw it, that was the error.
1) is 100% correct. In addition, they screwed up on the physics of the launch.
2 I am not sure of.
The accretion disc can very easily be the source of heat and light for the star system. And I am not talking about extreme cases. Accretion discs often put out more energy than stars.
If he flew threw it, that was the error.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:10 am to cgrand
quote:
3) the whole sequence on the water planet was dumb science and unnecessary. The orbit, the tides and even the existence of the planet itself that close to the black hole is just not possible according to what we understand about the gravitational forces around it
You can argue the science, but this was pretty damn necessary to the plot.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:15 am to cgrand
quote:
1) the range effortlessly lands and takes off from alien planets with similar gravity to earth, but it takes a Saturn-type booster rocket to leave earth? Why?
Save fuel on the ranger.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:19 am to barry
quote:
Save fuel on the ranger.
I like this.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:24 am to cgrand
quote:
1) the range effortlessly lands and takes off from alien planets with similar gravity to earth, but it takes a Saturn-type booster rocket to leave earth? Why?
To save on fuel for that lander. Taking off with that would not allow them to go to one other planet and return.
quote:
2) the 3 planets orbit a super massive black hole. Where then does heat and light come from to make the planets habitable? It can't be from the accretion disc because cooper flies right thru it. If it were hot enough to sustain a planet, it would have fried him immediately
There's probably a nearby star we didn't see. Could have a binary orbital pattern.
quote:
3) the whole sequence on the water planet was dumb science and unnecessary. The orbit, the tides and even the existence of the planet itself that close to the black hole is just not possible according to what we understand about the gravitational forces around it
I thought this as well, but NdGT has come out and said that that was indeed possible, and that's what would happen if a planet with liquid water got that close to a black hole.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:30 am to HeadChange
quote:
I don't think it matters.
Like the ending of Inception, it doesn't matter if it's a dream or reality, what was important was he was reunited with his kids. Like this movie, what was important, was he fulfilled his promise to his daughter.
I agree with this to some extent, but I do have a problem with his daughter basically telling her father to go kill himself once he does this.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:37 am to OMLandshark
a planet that close would be tidally locked...tidal forces would be evident on two sides of the planet but would not wove relative to the planets surface...ie no waves
Not to mention a planet that close would be instantly vaporized...it literally could not exist
finally, there was no good reason other than plot advancement to go there in the first place. They would already have known that due to the dangerous nature of the black hole that habitability was unlikely, and they would also have already known that miller had just recently landed relative to their relative timeline. The plot could have been advanced simply by making the black hole the object of the trip, not the planets, as they posit pretty early on that they need to take a "peek" into it
Not to mention a planet that close would be instantly vaporized...it literally could not exist
finally, there was no good reason other than plot advancement to go there in the first place. They would already have known that due to the dangerous nature of the black hole that habitability was unlikely, and they would also have already known that miller had just recently landed relative to their relative timeline. The plot could have been advanced simply by making the black hole the object of the trip, not the planets, as they posit pretty early on that they need to take a "peek" into it
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:41 am to cgrand
quote:
tidal forces would be evident on two sides of the planet but would not wove relative to the planets surface...ie no waves
Neil De Grasse Tyson disagrees with you. He said while the movie was wrong in its depiction of the waves, those would be present on a planet that close to a black hole.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 9:44 am to cgrand
quote:
a planet that close would be tidally locked...tidal forces would be evident on two sides of the planet but would not wove relative to the planets surface...ie no waves
Not to mention a planet that close would be instantly vaporized...it literally could not exist
I was thinking the same thing, but I'll trust what the actual experts have to say about it.
quote:
finally, there was no good reason other than plot advancement to go there in the first place. They would already have known that due to the dangerous nature of the black hole that habitability was unlikely, and they would also have already known that miller had just recently landed relative to their relative timeline. The plot could have been advanced simply by making the black hole the object of the trip, not the planets, as they posit pretty early on that they need to take a "peek" into it
Sadly, have to agree. That should have been their "Mines of Moria" route, in that that should be their final choice. Go to the other 2 that don't have time dilation, and if those don't pan out, then you go for Miller's planet.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 11:03 am to OMLandshark
Saw the movie in IMAX for first time last night after seeing it in regular 4k HD before.
- I actually thought the score was softer and better placed in IMAX which is odd. Liked it the first time, loved it the second time.
- I thought "love" played both a lesser and greater role 2nd time around. I took it as it being the means for which Murph finds Coop's watch and every other moment in her room. This one emotion saved humanity because it led her back there for no discernible rhyme or reason. Originally it felt as if they were stating love was in itself another dimension.
- The water planet is baffling on many levels. I would have preferred something go wrong on it's own than Brand going full "derp" knowing full well the seriousness of the situation.
- The characters' emotions were much more enthralling the second time around. Not having to grasp my mind around what was going on made watching the movie as an actual movie so much more enjoyable.
- The only part I can't quite comprehend is why Murph tells Coop to go find Brand. If it were possible, why is Coop the first to go after her? Surely, even if it were unknown what the planets held in store, they'd send people through the wormhole again to check. There's no reason for Murph to tell Coop to go to Brand were the wormhole closed. The only theory I can come up with is that data transmission through the wormhole still sucks, and they've very recently arrived at Saturn. Coop arrives in time to take off before the actual missions began.
- The wormhole open/closed argument was one I went in trying to solve. The only clue I have that it's open or closed is that there are ranger scouts flying around Saturn. There's no need for that with the wormhole closed. Also, why Saturn if there's no longer a wormhole there. Surely, if the wormhole closed the second Coop pops up as has been suggested, that would cause quite a wide array of panic.
- I don't see how anyone can have the opinion Murph is still mad at Coop when they reunite. I didn't see a touch of malice in Murph's face towards anything from the second she figured out her dad was her ghost.
- To the family crowd, Nolan shows them conversing and the conversation trails off as they cut to Brand. They only show Coop leaving that room with the convo as a memory. I don't see how you can discernibly say one way or the other that Coop wasn't in that room longer than a minute or so. He also looks fairly exhausted as he leaves, which could be the result of it going either way.
- Nolan to me intentionally left the ending wide open to discussion just as he did with Inception. A "choose your own ending and interpretation". I admire this to an extent, but it felt less necessary than Inception. That's Nolan though, and I'll never cut someone down for trying to get people thinking.
- It's always intimidating to see a 3 hour movie within a couple weeks of each other. The movie fricking FLEW the 2nd time around.
- I actually thought the score was softer and better placed in IMAX which is odd. Liked it the first time, loved it the second time.
- I thought "love" played both a lesser and greater role 2nd time around. I took it as it being the means for which Murph finds Coop's watch and every other moment in her room. This one emotion saved humanity because it led her back there for no discernible rhyme or reason. Originally it felt as if they were stating love was in itself another dimension.
- The water planet is baffling on many levels. I would have preferred something go wrong on it's own than Brand going full "derp" knowing full well the seriousness of the situation.
- The characters' emotions were much more enthralling the second time around. Not having to grasp my mind around what was going on made watching the movie as an actual movie so much more enjoyable.
- The only part I can't quite comprehend is why Murph tells Coop to go find Brand. If it were possible, why is Coop the first to go after her? Surely, even if it were unknown what the planets held in store, they'd send people through the wormhole again to check. There's no reason for Murph to tell Coop to go to Brand were the wormhole closed. The only theory I can come up with is that data transmission through the wormhole still sucks, and they've very recently arrived at Saturn. Coop arrives in time to take off before the actual missions began.
- The wormhole open/closed argument was one I went in trying to solve. The only clue I have that it's open or closed is that there are ranger scouts flying around Saturn. There's no need for that with the wormhole closed. Also, why Saturn if there's no longer a wormhole there. Surely, if the wormhole closed the second Coop pops up as has been suggested, that would cause quite a wide array of panic.
- I don't see how anyone can have the opinion Murph is still mad at Coop when they reunite. I didn't see a touch of malice in Murph's face towards anything from the second she figured out her dad was her ghost.
- To the family crowd, Nolan shows them conversing and the conversation trails off as they cut to Brand. They only show Coop leaving that room with the convo as a memory. I don't see how you can discernibly say one way or the other that Coop wasn't in that room longer than a minute or so. He also looks fairly exhausted as he leaves, which could be the result of it going either way.
- Nolan to me intentionally left the ending wide open to discussion just as he did with Inception. A "choose your own ending and interpretation". I admire this to an extent, but it felt less necessary than Inception. That's Nolan though, and I'll never cut someone down for trying to get people thinking.
- It's always intimidating to see a 3 hour movie within a couple weeks of each other. The movie fricking FLEW the 2nd time around.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 11:27 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I do have a problem with his daughter basically telling her father to go kill himself once he does this.
See I don't see it that way at all.
If he is going to see Brand and this is an "impossible trip" we must accept that the wormhole is closed and the only other option is try to make an impossible trek across the universe. We do not know that for sure.
Besides, he may just want to explorer the rest of the solar system or some nearby solar system. Who knows. I just don't think she would lead him to his death by telling him to travel into an abyss with nothing to truly explorer. That doesn't make a lot of sense logically. Whether it is through a wormhole to see Brand, or somewhere else (that we are unaware of), there has to be an option other than an unfulfilling, certain death.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 11:38 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
The wormhole open/closed argument was one I went in trying to solve. The only clue I have that it's open or closed is that there are ranger scouts flying around Saturn. There's no need for that with the wormhole closed. Also, why Saturn if there's no longer a wormhole there. Surely, if the wormhole closed the second Coop pops up as has been suggested, that would cause quite a wide array of panic.
Good points.
quote:
Nolan to me intentionally left the ending wide open to discussion just as he did with Inception. A "choose your own ending and interpretation". I admire this to an extent, but it felt less necessary than Inception. That's Nolan though, and I'll never cut someone down for trying to get people thinking.
Two things.
I think a movie surrounding the exploration of the universe will naturally leave a lot left because of the vast nature of the universe. To me, it's what makes it exciting and mind-boggling; there is so much more left when a film is done. As long as the story is completed, then the rest is maybe our own desires to see more.
I think we, the viewers, have somewhat concocted more uncertainty into the ending than is actually there-Jonathan Nolan's interview notwithstanding. Again, this may be due to the nature of this type of film, but I think a lot of discussion (although it is enjoyable) beyond the scope of the film. For example, I never even gave it a thought that it was closed until this thread. Now that may be my interpretative shortcomings, or it may be that we have turned something that isn't definitively stated, but not meant to be so "open" for interpretation, and turned it into this completely uncertain point.
This post was edited on 11/23/14 at 11:48 am
Posted on 11/23/14 at 11:50 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Neil De Grasse Tyson disagrees with you. He said while the movie was wrong in its depiction of the waves, those would be present on a planet that close to a black hole.
my understanding of what he said was that IF a planet were suitably distant from the black hole in order to:
A) exist
B) not be tidally locked
C) possess an atmosphere and surface water
then yes, gravity from the black hole would create massive tidal surges in the surface water
neither A, B, nor C apply here. The planet is far too close to the black hole to even be there in the first place, much less not be locked, or have air/water
again, I loved the movie but the whole episode at millers planet was cringeworthy and completely unnecessary
This post was edited on 11/23/14 at 11:52 am
Posted on 11/23/14 at 11:53 am to cgrand
quote:
my understanding of what he said was that IF a planet were suitably distant from the black hole in order to:
A) exist
B) not be tidally locked
C) possess an atmosphere and surface water
then yes, gravity from the black hole would create massive tidal surges in the surface water
neither A, B, nor C apply here. The planet is far too close to the black hole to even be there in the first place, much less not be locked, or have air/water
I'm at the mercy of other's in these situations; however, the Kip Thorne article somebody posted earlier stated that only two aspects of the film were not likely to be theoretically possible (i.e., the ice clouds, and something with Cooper's descent into the black hole).
This post was edited on 11/23/14 at 11:55 am
Posted on 11/23/14 at 12:43 pm to buckeye_vol
Warning: this post may be long
I saw this movie last week after avoiding as much info about it as possible. I tempered my hopes, but expected it to be solid. My initial feeling after the movie was that it was well done but could have been shortened by at least 15 minutes. I also felt like it was a movie all fathers and daughters with good relationships will love.
I also definitely thought Inception was a better movie in every aspect, but I did enjoy the homage to 2001 throughout.
I have since read a fair amount of this thread, but certainly not all 60+ pages, so I apologize if I rehash some things. Also, I am considering watching it again in IMAX so maybe my feelings will change a bit.
In a movie like this I definitely understand the suspension of some belief, but as stated by others there are some aspects of the movie that should've been tightened up.
The most obvious thing to me was why exactly did we not have a larger population living on space stations in outer space? If anything, the world could have used resources to at least ensure the existence of the species via that. This is a major thing I let slide as a non issue.
Secondly, as stated before, the idea of starting with a planet closest to a black hole is idiocy. I let this slide too, because it served the purpose of time dilation which gave a cool effect. I felt my gut sink a bit when they came back and it had been 23 yrs. It was worth having in the movie for that effect, and to lose one of the crew.
I found a massive incongruence with the Hathaway love speech. It's like all of a sudden this cold scientist decides to profess massive emotion. If anything the love speech should've come from Cooper as he was established as having a believable loving character arc. It wasn't what she said that was borderline cheesy as much as that it was her saying it. I think that was why it fell flat. Here she is talking about loving someone she never met? Get real. It came off like a baby trying to tell an adult how to change a diaper.
I had no problem with all the Matt Damon stuff.
The last probably 40 minutes of the movie is where I think everything got really messed up for me. I am not of the opinion the wormhole was closed, and for me it really is not affecting my thoughts towards the movie or the end. Since I have had time to really sit and think on the movie I really really really wish it would have ended differently (the last 20 min-not just him flying off). I felt the whole him reuniting to his older daughter was beyond ridiculous, not to mention the fact her whole family looks at him as though he was unwanted in the room. Then him jetting out to find Brand wasn't that big a deal as I assumed he knew how to go through wormhole and where she'd be.
If you aren't tired of reading by now I will subject you to how I would have liked to see the movie end, which I think would have been more open for discussion and more interesting.
First, from what we understand about black holes/singularities is that the gravity is so strong that it crushes everything, so there is no way Cooper could have survived. I did think that the tessaract idea and imagery was very very cool and one of the highlights of the film and would have kept all of that in. It would have been more involved showing Cooper viewing multiple stages in Murph's life and him frantically searching for the bedroom where he communicates to her. From there he knows he has reached an existence never before understood by humans ie-death.
From that standpoint he would then be able to communicate all the information to her necessary to save mankind. Not only that, but he could have had some very touching dialogue to Murph about being sorry etc and him loving her forever (Nolan could have done a great job with this).
After his message is done it would have cut to simultaneous multiple images of his kids (Matt Damon foreshadowed) while he is within the tessaract and then pan away from that to just Cooper's peaceful face seeing his whole children's life at once and the camera zooms into his eye all the way into his pupil (black hole). The movie could end there, or I think it would be cool to have 3 - 5 seconds of black and then a slow pan out to Cooper's exact eyeball which then zooms out to a baby's face being held by an older Anne Hathaway.
This would be in line with the thoughts of black holes being where the universe was created at the time of the big bang etc.
I would have liked that better anyway. Off soapbox.
I saw this movie last week after avoiding as much info about it as possible. I tempered my hopes, but expected it to be solid. My initial feeling after the movie was that it was well done but could have been shortened by at least 15 minutes. I also felt like it was a movie all fathers and daughters with good relationships will love.
I also definitely thought Inception was a better movie in every aspect, but I did enjoy the homage to 2001 throughout.
I have since read a fair amount of this thread, but certainly not all 60+ pages, so I apologize if I rehash some things. Also, I am considering watching it again in IMAX so maybe my feelings will change a bit.
In a movie like this I definitely understand the suspension of some belief, but as stated by others there are some aspects of the movie that should've been tightened up.
The most obvious thing to me was why exactly did we not have a larger population living on space stations in outer space? If anything, the world could have used resources to at least ensure the existence of the species via that. This is a major thing I let slide as a non issue.
Secondly, as stated before, the idea of starting with a planet closest to a black hole is idiocy. I let this slide too, because it served the purpose of time dilation which gave a cool effect. I felt my gut sink a bit when they came back and it had been 23 yrs. It was worth having in the movie for that effect, and to lose one of the crew.
I found a massive incongruence with the Hathaway love speech. It's like all of a sudden this cold scientist decides to profess massive emotion. If anything the love speech should've come from Cooper as he was established as having a believable loving character arc. It wasn't what she said that was borderline cheesy as much as that it was her saying it. I think that was why it fell flat. Here she is talking about loving someone she never met? Get real. It came off like a baby trying to tell an adult how to change a diaper.
I had no problem with all the Matt Damon stuff.
The last probably 40 minutes of the movie is where I think everything got really messed up for me. I am not of the opinion the wormhole was closed, and for me it really is not affecting my thoughts towards the movie or the end. Since I have had time to really sit and think on the movie I really really really wish it would have ended differently (the last 20 min-not just him flying off). I felt the whole him reuniting to his older daughter was beyond ridiculous, not to mention the fact her whole family looks at him as though he was unwanted in the room. Then him jetting out to find Brand wasn't that big a deal as I assumed he knew how to go through wormhole and where she'd be.
If you aren't tired of reading by now I will subject you to how I would have liked to see the movie end, which I think would have been more open for discussion and more interesting.
First, from what we understand about black holes/singularities is that the gravity is so strong that it crushes everything, so there is no way Cooper could have survived. I did think that the tessaract idea and imagery was very very cool and one of the highlights of the film and would have kept all of that in. It would have been more involved showing Cooper viewing multiple stages in Murph's life and him frantically searching for the bedroom where he communicates to her. From there he knows he has reached an existence never before understood by humans ie-death.
From that standpoint he would then be able to communicate all the information to her necessary to save mankind. Not only that, but he could have had some very touching dialogue to Murph about being sorry etc and him loving her forever (Nolan could have done a great job with this).
After his message is done it would have cut to simultaneous multiple images of his kids (Matt Damon foreshadowed) while he is within the tessaract and then pan away from that to just Cooper's peaceful face seeing his whole children's life at once and the camera zooms into his eye all the way into his pupil (black hole). The movie could end there, or I think it would be cool to have 3 - 5 seconds of black and then a slow pan out to Cooper's exact eyeball which then zooms out to a baby's face being held by an older Anne Hathaway.
This would be in line with the thoughts of black holes being where the universe was created at the time of the big bang etc.
I would have liked that better anyway. Off soapbox.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 1:33 pm to 0jersey
I think analyzing all of the scientific theories in this movie is ridiculous. Since none of these things have actually been done, how can we say that they got the science wrong? It's a science FICTION movie. There are no scientific facts known about blackholes. This movie was not meant to be a NASA documentary. Just like Inception or The Prestige, it's Nolan's job to tell a story first and foremost. The science is a backdrop. This movie was about many things. Family connections, humanity, survival, and adventure. Space travel and blackholes were only one aspect of the movie. I can judge a movie based on the effectiveness of the entire package.
Posted on 11/23/14 at 1:43 pm to abellsujr
I am not positive if you meant to respond to me directly. If so, I'll say this-
I really don't nitpick movies. Unless something is obviously out of place I just go with it.
I really didn't have a problem with any of the science EXCEPT Cooper somehow surviving and being found in space "with minutes left" of oxygen. I don't remember specifically, but wasn't he without his helmet in the tesseract? He had no ship and was just adrift in space?
I just had the feeling the reuniting was too forced and it took this movie from being exceptional to just good. Again, I may like it better on second viewing.
I really don't nitpick movies. Unless something is obviously out of place I just go with it.
I really didn't have a problem with any of the science EXCEPT Cooper somehow surviving and being found in space "with minutes left" of oxygen. I don't remember specifically, but wasn't he without his helmet in the tesseract? He had no ship and was just adrift in space?
I just had the feeling the reuniting was too forced and it took this movie from being exceptional to just good. Again, I may like it better on second viewing.
This post was edited on 11/23/14 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 11/23/14 at 1:47 pm to 0jersey
quote:He had his helmet on. If you do watch it again, do me a favor. Accept all of the science aspects of the movie. Forget about them. Don't think about them at all. Watch and enjoy the story telling.
but wasn't he without his helmet in the tesseract?
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