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Message
re: The official Interstellar thread (spoilers)
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:47 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:47 am to theunknownknight
quote:
And, as usual, Nolan went around the world to check the mail.
I thought it was an excellent movie. This was the directors intent so to speak. Yes he played out a very long movie to make a point, but I thought it was worth it.
2
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:50 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
This over concern for the environment
Wow. Bravo.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:58 am to rebeloke
Saw it last night. I need to decompress for a few days and see it again but right now I'm ranking it as the best Sci-Fi movie of all time and one of the top 3 in any category.
Some movies are great because they are clever/subtle
Some movies are great because they are spectacular
Interstellar is both
Cooper's viewing of the transmissions after the 23 years was indescribable, especially if you're a parent. Cooper yelling at past Cooper to not leave his daughter's bedroom was unforgettable. Matt Damon's "Can you see your kids' faces?" is chilling.
In short, this movie blew me away and it will take a while to fully comprehend what I just saw.
Some movies are great because they are clever/subtle
Some movies are great because they are spectacular
Interstellar is both
Cooper's viewing of the transmissions after the 23 years was indescribable, especially if you're a parent. Cooper yelling at past Cooper to not leave his daughter's bedroom was unforgettable. Matt Damon's "Can you see your kids' faces?" is chilling.
In short, this movie blew me away and it will take a while to fully comprehend what I just saw.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:10 am to catholictigerfan
Ok I think the big problem people are having with the narrative is as follows. (after going back and reading freaux's point)
According to Freaux is the plot falls because how can human's save themselves if they don't survive. The problem is that they do survive.
The ending makes it very clear that Humans survived and it was because of Dr. Coopers daugther Murph who saved them.
This is where it gets complex but in my mind it makes sense why it works out.
So Humans are trying to survive on earth. Old Dr. Brand in secret keeps Nasa running, he sends people up to find an earth to save the human race.
They discover a worm hole leading to planets that could be suitable for life. This is where our paradox comes into play, this is not the first time this has shown up in film or novels. The most basic example of this is in family guy, the big bang episode. Stewie and Brian get bumped outside of time, and their going back into time is the big bang. The Paradox is that they created themselves by this action. It creates a casualty loop, even though they couldn't exist if that event didn't happen, because they went back in time (well outside of time) and created this event it is necessitated that they do it. It is hard to explain let me try to explain it by a chain
you have a line of ABCDEFG
A causes B B causes C C cause D etc.
B can't exist without A C can't exist without B etc. When G is brought into existence, he finds out how to create A. So G can't exist without A, but A can't exist without G. That seems to be a logical contradiction, but because it is true and it did happen (we assume it does) it is a paradox. That is the paradox of the causality loop. I don't think this could ever happen in reality, but this is science fiction sometimes you have to let them stretch the truth. IF you can't let them do it I get why you think it's bad.
In the movie it isn't so much of a paradox it can happen if time travel is possible. By the fact that Dr. Cooper goes into the black hole and finds himself in a 5th dimension time travel is in fact possible.
So in the movie it works like this
Dr. Cooper is brought outside of time when he goes into the black hole. This isn't to far of a stretch. A blackhole is a singularity meaning that mass space and time are infinite (I think) We don't know what is beyond the event horizon. What Nolan does is says that you can pass past this event horizon and physics change. This change in physics allows us to time travel.
Now that he has the ability to time travel, well really exist outside of time.
Normally we travel A->B->C etc. If we are brought outside of time, we see A->B->C as a point on a timeline, we can go backwards and forwards on that time line see point X and than jump to point A. So you can ever interact with Space and Time. We are on a train track forced to follow time. But He goes off this train track of time, no longer bound by it. So even though Dr. Cooper is in his life is at time point X, he can effect point C, and because he affected point C, it allows him to make it to point X.
So back to my causality loop explanation
Dr. Cooper follows ABCDEFG etc. at the black hole he gets to point X, at point X he is able to cause point A which leads to point X. This paradox explains how it works.
to follow this out further. Humans will reach point F^34. They find out how to go outside of time and there for go back and create the chain of events that lead to their point. So again they are at point F^34 they cause A which leads to F^34. Causing a causality loop which allows it to exist.
So to put this into events. Point F^34 is a future human society creating a wormhole in the past which allows humans to get to a survivable planet, which will eventually leads to their existence than allows them to go back in time to create the worm hole. A causality loop exists in these events.
That same causality loop happens in the black hole when he pushes over the books. It's clear as day in the movie go back and find it.
It's complicated but it works. It just takes time to explain how it works.
If I wasn't clear please let me know.
According to Freaux is the plot falls because how can human's save themselves if they don't survive. The problem is that they do survive.
The ending makes it very clear that Humans survived and it was because of Dr. Coopers daugther Murph who saved them.
This is where it gets complex but in my mind it makes sense why it works out.
So Humans are trying to survive on earth. Old Dr. Brand in secret keeps Nasa running, he sends people up to find an earth to save the human race.
They discover a worm hole leading to planets that could be suitable for life. This is where our paradox comes into play, this is not the first time this has shown up in film or novels. The most basic example of this is in family guy, the big bang episode. Stewie and Brian get bumped outside of time, and their going back into time is the big bang. The Paradox is that they created themselves by this action. It creates a casualty loop, even though they couldn't exist if that event didn't happen, because they went back in time (well outside of time) and created this event it is necessitated that they do it. It is hard to explain let me try to explain it by a chain
you have a line of ABCDEFG
A causes B B causes C C cause D etc.
B can't exist without A C can't exist without B etc. When G is brought into existence, he finds out how to create A. So G can't exist without A, but A can't exist without G. That seems to be a logical contradiction, but because it is true and it did happen (we assume it does) it is a paradox. That is the paradox of the causality loop. I don't think this could ever happen in reality, but this is science fiction sometimes you have to let them stretch the truth. IF you can't let them do it I get why you think it's bad.
In the movie it isn't so much of a paradox it can happen if time travel is possible. By the fact that Dr. Cooper goes into the black hole and finds himself in a 5th dimension time travel is in fact possible.
So in the movie it works like this
Dr. Cooper is brought outside of time when he goes into the black hole. This isn't to far of a stretch. A blackhole is a singularity meaning that mass space and time are infinite (I think) We don't know what is beyond the event horizon. What Nolan does is says that you can pass past this event horizon and physics change. This change in physics allows us to time travel.
Now that he has the ability to time travel, well really exist outside of time.
Normally we travel A->B->C etc. If we are brought outside of time, we see A->B->C as a point on a timeline, we can go backwards and forwards on that time line see point X and than jump to point A. So you can ever interact with Space and Time. We are on a train track forced to follow time. But He goes off this train track of time, no longer bound by it. So even though Dr. Cooper is in his life is at time point X, he can effect point C, and because he affected point C, it allows him to make it to point X.
So back to my causality loop explanation
Dr. Cooper follows ABCDEFG etc. at the black hole he gets to point X, at point X he is able to cause point A which leads to point X. This paradox explains how it works.
to follow this out further. Humans will reach point F^34. They find out how to go outside of time and there for go back and create the chain of events that lead to their point. So again they are at point F^34 they cause A which leads to F^34. Causing a causality loop which allows it to exist.
So to put this into events. Point F^34 is a future human society creating a wormhole in the past which allows humans to get to a survivable planet, which will eventually leads to their existence than allows them to go back in time to create the worm hole. A causality loop exists in these events.
That same causality loop happens in the black hole when he pushes over the books. It's clear as day in the movie go back and find it.
It's complicated but it works. It just takes time to explain how it works.
If I wasn't clear please let me know.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 9:17 am
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:13 am to catholictigerfan
It's easier...
Here's my post:
Here's my post:
quote:
You guys didn't listen correctly.
He said "It's us." meaning the 5th dimensional beings, then began to lay out what he meant by that. He meant that he helping his daughter was the same thing as what they are doing by having him tell his daughter.
It wasn't mankind or descendants of mankind, it was message senders he was saying was "us".
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:16 am to Pectus
No, it's very clearly future humans who have transcended into the 5th dimension that are behind it. Having it be aliens is bullshite to the overall message, and I had to roll my eyes when I was told that aliens put the wormhole there. But once you find out that it's humanity in their highest form that have done it, I couldn't help but think how fricking brilliant that was.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:18 am to OMLandshark
quote:
No, it's very clearly future humans who have transcended into the 5th dimension that are behind it. Having it be aliens is bullshite to the overall message, and I had to roll my eyes when I was told that aliens put the wormhole there. But once you find out that it's humanity in their highest form that have done it, I couldn't help but think how fricking brilliant that was.
So whose humans?
Earth's (or the space vessel like in Rendezvous with Rama)
or
Brand's?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:19 am to RidiculousHype
quote:
I need to decompress for a few days and see it again but right now I'm ranking it as the best Sci-Fi movie of all time and one of the top 3 in any category.
This the fifth greatest movie of all time by Nolan?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:20 am to Pectus
quote:
So whose humans?
Earth's (or the space vessel like in Rendezvous with Rama)
or
Brand's?
it doesn't matter, the simple fact is that it did happen.
Let me try to explain it with letters
A Causes B causes C DEFGHIJK. K (future humans) causes A, which leads back to K, a causality loop is created. It doesn't matter if it is earth's or Brand's the simple fact that it did happen. The fact that we see the future impacting the present, it works no matter how it works.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 9:22 am
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:22 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
I tried to break down your argument hopefully it helps fraux understand it.
Y'all are really missing his point. He understands what you are saying. He's saying, if your understanding is accurate, Interstellar is just one huge lazy story wrapped like a Hershey's Kisses.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 9:23 am
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:22 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Ok I think the big problem people are having with the narrative is as follows. (after going back and reading freaux's point)
According to Freaux is the plot falls because how can human's save themselves if they don't survive. The problem is that they do survive.
The ending makes it very clear that Humans survived and it was because of Dr. Coopers daugther Murph who saved them.
This is where it gets complex but in my mind it makes sense why it works out.
So Humans are trying to survive on earth. Old Dr. Brand in secret keeps Nasa running, he sends people up to find an earth to save the human race.
They discover a worm hole leading to planets that could be suitable for life. This is where our paradox comes into play, this is not the first time this has shown up in film or novels. The most basic example of this is in family guy, the big bang episode. Stewie and Brian get bumped outside of time, and their going back into time is the big bang. The Paradox is that they created themselves by this action. It creates a casualty loop, even though they couldn't exist if that event didn't happen, because they went back in time (well outside of time) and created this event it is necessitated that they do it. It is hard to explain let me try to explain it by a chain
you have a line of ABCDEFG
A causes B B causes C C cause D etc.
B can't exist without A C can't exist without B etc. When G is brought into existence, he finds out how to create A. So G can't exist without A, but A can't exist without G. That seems to be a logical contradiction, but because it is true and it did happen (we assume it does) it is a paradox. That is the paradox of the causality loop. I don't think this could ever happen in reality, but this is science fiction sometimes you have to let them stretch the truth. IF you can't let them do it I get why you think it's bad.
In the movie it isn't so much of a paradox it can happen if time travel is possible. By the fact that Dr. Cooper goes into the black hole and finds himself in a 5th dimension time travel is in fact possible.
So in the movie it works like this
Dr. Cooper is brought outside of time when he goes into the black hole. This isn't to far of a stretch. A blackhole is a singularity meaning that mass space and time are infinite (I think) We don't know what is beyond the event horizon. What Nolan does is says that you can pass past this event horizon and physics change. This change in physics allows us to time travel.
Now that he has the ability to time travel, well really exist outside of time.
Normally we travel A->B->C etc. If we are brought outside of time, we see A->B->C as a point on a timeline, we can go backwards and forwards on that time line see point X and than jump to point A. So you can ever interact with Space and Time. We are on a train track forced to follow time. But He goes off this train track of time, no longer bound by it. So even though Dr. Cooper is in his life is at time point X, he can effect point C, and because he affected point C, it allows him to make it to point X.
So back to my causality loop explanation
Dr. Cooper follows ABCDEFG etc. at the black hole he gets to point X, at point X he is able to cause point A which leads to point X. This paradox explains how it works.
It's complicated but it works. It just takes time to explain how it works.
If I wasn't clear please let me know.
So, obviously, everything is always happening, right?
I get this, but this makes the theme, not necessarily the narrative, fall apart. I should have been more clear.
Ok, maybe not fall apart, but it means far less if it has nothing to do with survival, and everything to do with the limitless matrix of time and god-like super humans saving little wimpy humanity.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:27 am to Freauxzen
quote:
Ok, maybe not fall apart, but it means far less if it has nothing to do with survival, and everything to do with the limitless matrix of time and god-like super humans saving little wimpy humanity.
wouldn't the future humans come to realize that their saving their past humans is necessary for themselves.
Again
a causality chain A-K K causes A. If K doesn't cause A K doesn't exist. K necessarily causes A.
But I still think it has to do with survival the causality loop is created because they are trying to survive. NOT that a future super human species looks on lowly human kind with compassion allowing them to survive.
I must go. I did my best to explain this, in my mind it makes sense how it works out and the more I think about it the more brilliant the movie comes for me. I'm going to leave this argument at this point.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:32 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Y'all are really missing his point. He understands what you are saying. He's saying, if your understanding is accurate, Interstellar is just one huge lazy story wrapped like a Hershey's Kisses.
Bingo.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:35 am to Freauxzen
I don't see how it is a lazy story. In my mind it makes sense why it would happen this way, and why to me it is an effective story telling technique not just lazy.
see one post above.
see one post above.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:36 am to Pectus
quote:exaxtly, I roll my eyes every time someone says that Mann was a waste of time
really liked the Matt Damon sequence. It showed us the will to survive on a personal level. We know the species was on the brink of extinction, what about the individual. It was a great parallel to Dad-Brand's plan of no return mission. They covered every aspect of survival in this film. They had to show this if they showed species and familial struggle to survive. Hence the expositionary speeches by many of the characters.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:40 am to catholictigerfan
quote:Right, but what made it possible for her to do so?
did you not watch the whole movie? We clearly got off the planet. Dr. Coopers Daughter Murph, figured out Old Dr. Brand's second half of the equation. AKA time. Because she figured out the second half she was able to save the human race get them off earth and move on.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:48 am to Pectus
quote:
Earth's (or the space vessel like in Rendezvous with Rama)
Earth's or Earth's plus Brand's. No way it could be just Brand's since the wormhole needs to be there to transport then to Brand's planet.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 11/10/14 at 9:54 am to Freauxzen
quote:kip thorne has a whole chapter in his book "the science of interstellar" about the bootstrap paradox. You should read it before you call it lazy story telling.
Bingo
Posted on 11/10/14 at 10:03 am to jeff5891
Im glad they made intersteller instead of intrasteller. Intrasteller would have been so boring.
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