re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power S1, Episode 4 Thread | Amazon | Available Now

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Isildur is the dude that cut the ring off Sauron and brought the ring to Mt. Doom but couldn't throw it in the lava right?

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Yes

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Can someone explain Elves to me? They live forever? Just how badass are they from a fighting perspective? Seemed like Legolas was a beast but Aragorn was stronger, but this show leads me to believe Elves are more "supernatural."

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Yes, Elves live forever, and don't age. You hit about 30, and then just continue on living. Don't get sick, either.
Fighting- gets iffy. Tolkien wrote that Elves are beyond Human in terms of gracefulness... they can walk on top of snow, instead of sinking in. They cross rivers walking on ropes, can do as casually as you or I might walk on a bridge. Senses, they can hear and see things miles away. You might could see a bird circling in the sky, an Elf could count that bird's feathers, and tell what color it's eyes are.
You take stuff like that as a baseline, and then put them in a world where they've been fighting for thousands of years, and you get super-ninjas.
Even Galadriel, who many are pissed at wielding a sword in this show, would honestly be a beast. She's more graceful than the greatest ballerina ever, and she's going to have more casual practice time with weapons, than the greatest swordsman ever. Imagine if you gave an Olympic gymnast a sword, and 4 thousand years to practice with it... you get an Elf.

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Same question with orcs. How many orcs does it take to kill your average elf. The scene with Arondir and Theo escaping the orcs felt unbelievable but should it? Or are the elves that much more badass than an orc? And just how dumb are these orcs?

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Orcs are complicated if you look deeply into their history... but let's keep it simple.
They are basically the equivalent of feral, stray dogs, with a humanoid appearance (this is not their actual lineage, but best fits their demeanor and culture). They are dangerous in their savage manner, their complete lack of decency, and in a pack they have numbers. But one-on-one, they get their arse kicked by any skilled warrior.
Extremely light-sensitive, sunburn instantly and lights also blind them, so they are good in the dark, almost useless in daylight.
Dumb... intelligence vs culture. They are smart enough to have speech, and use weapons and armor. Imagine the most ignorant, trashy, disgusting thug you can, the worse the person is, the more they are like an Orc. Zero emphasis on learning, or philosophy, or anything else that makes one "civilized".

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Elves and some characters get to sail out to this island for eternal life, right? Have we gotten an explanation of what Halbrand was doing out there?

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Only Elves can go to the Uttermost West.

Best way to explain- Imagine, God is real (Eru), but is served by his loyal Angels to run the Earth. The Valar.
These Valar are basically the Olympic Gods, similar in number and powers.
They live on a continent far to the West (Valinor), on the other side of the Sea. They want the Elves to come live with them, and Elves can go there (return there, in this case).

Men and other mortals can not go there, among other reasons because they would die faster among such great power. Light is too bright, etc.
Also, you still have the above religious aspect- Elves get to stay there, but do not go on to be with Eru when they die, their spirits stay with the Valar.

Men, on the other hand, go to be with Eru, beyond the world.

After the big war that drove Morgoth (Lucifer, for practical purposes) out of the Earth, the Men who fought on the side of Good, were rewarded by being given a beautiful island (Numenor), away from the troubles of the world at large. They could sail back to Middle Earth, but are not allowed to sail further West to the lands of the Valar.
Numenor is basically Atlantis. And yes, risking spoilers, the Atlantis myth is in play...

Galadriel did not go to Valinor, she hopped off before that ship crossed over. Being out in the Western seas, she was found by the Numenoreans, and brought there.

We don't know why Halbrand was out there, or where his ship was sailing. But it could never get to Valinor, and I don't think they even knew it exists, or even that Numenor does (he does ask what this place was). I think they were just "getting away", sailing blindly for a place to start a new life. They were trying to escape the troubles (orcs) that drove them out of their lands.

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Do we know if the elves know that Galadriel didn't go to that eternal island yet?

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Yes... we know.
No, they don't, yet. They know she set sail, and now she's gone. They think she left.
Once you go back to Valinor, you're "gone". You don't come and go.

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Why did the men support Morgoth before the story started?

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That's pretty simple, if you think about it.

Morgoth (Satan), was originally one of the Valar, and is more powerful than any single one of them. It takes ALL of them to bring him down, and that fight literally broke the world (there's a continent where this fight took place, it's no longer on the map. Now gone, and there's sea where it once was).

For most of existence, the Valar were content to live in Valinor, and let Morgoth stay in Middle Earth. Going after him would break too much stuff, to keep it simple.

But, Elves (and then later, Men) appeared in the world... in Middle Earth. So that became a problem- Middle Earth was not safe for the peoples. Eventually had to do something to get him out.

Why would Men support Morgoth? Because he was a powerful god, that they could actually lay eyes on. Not just a tale told in a temple, you had physical evidence of his existence and presence.
Now with the equivalence of Morgoth=Lucifer, you ask why worship? Do you think Lucifer would be telling the true story, or would he be saying he's the creator? Father of Lies, etc. I think you can figure that out.
Humans throughout history followed 'god-kings', who were really just men. Imagine a real god, with all that power.

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Is this show supposed to stand on its own or follow Tolkien's work? Can I lookup info online while avoiding spoilers?

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It follows Tolkien's work. If the above sounds complex, it's because Tolkien created an entire world and mythology, and used it as a backdrop for LOTR and The Hobbit. Creation myth, complete with Creator, all the way down to who made flowers and why.

It mirrors the Catholic/Christian mythos (Tolkien was a devout Catholic), and a lot of this stuff corresponds to how you might speculate things work within Christianity.
Using the Valar to be the "Olympic gods" (or Norse, etc), but then placing them as loyal "angels" to Eru (God, capital G), addresses how men might perceive such powerful beings as gods themselves, as they don't understand the hierarchy in it's complete form.

The Valar themselves never call themselves "gods", whereas Morgoth does claim that title. And Sauron will later do the same. That addresses the "false god" issue.

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Can I lookup info online while avoiding spoilers?

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THAT would be ... very hard to do.

You have watched the movies, so you already know whether or not Elrond, Galadriel etc will survive in this show.

LOTR was a complete narrative novel, 3 volumes/actually 6 'books', full of stuff. They had to leave a lot out of the movies, to make things fit in the timeframe.

This portion of his works was never written in novel form, it's a lot more like your 7th grade history book (and this period of time will be a chapter). So there is the opposite issue, there will, by necessity, a lot ADDED, to fill in the blanks.

Very wordy, but I hope it can give you a decent feel for the show, and how it fits with the movies.

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Elves are very much badass and the best of them can best the best of men. One of them singlehandedly battled and wounded the second most powerful being in the LOtR universe

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Another thing worth noting, is that Elves don't "die" like Men.

Even those that "die", in battle or any other means, their spirits go intact to Valinor, and reside in the Halls of Mandos (the Valar who is sort of the equivalent of Hades, but not evil or bad,... but more of a judge). Eventually, they can be reincarnated, given another flesh body. Point being, they don't "go away".

Men, when they die, DO leave, and go beyond the world/universe (Arda), and reside with Eru (the Creator and actual GOD). Even the Valar do not know much beyond that simple sentence; or if they do, they have never told.

Morgoth (and later Sauron) made use of this, to corrupt Men. Death is called the Gift of Men, but the men became jealous of the Elves' immortality, and fearful of death. That fear of death would be played upon, with various promises of immortality.

Interestingly, Tolkien thinks through this concept, and applies it to the Elves, too. While Men covet immortality, Elves become weary of the world, and sail away to Valinor to be with the Valar.

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There is an Elf leading the Orcs, but they call him Adar (father). He talks to Arondir, asks where he was born- (Beleriand). He says, "By the mouths of the river? I walked those lands long ago."
And then proceeds to tell Arondir that much of what he's been told, is lies. Lies so old, even the stones are beginning to believe them.

That, to me, sounds like Adar is one of the Elves that Morgoth got to, before Orome first found them. Which, when you think about it, could fit nicely... he'd need to survive the fall of Utumno, and then Angband, but a few things clearly did. Morgoth probably wouldn't use his immortal breeding stock as cannon fodder, and Elves don't die of old age. He might well be the last one left, or there may be several still around... and they'd be far more valuable to Sauron as his court and cabinet, instead of leading troops in the field. Makes sense we wouldn't see them much.

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That makes sense, but didn’t Tolkien say that Orcs aren’t immortal. My interpretation is Illuvatar took their immortality away just as a gift to them rather than live forever in suffering. But that would make Adar older than any other elf in Middle Earth at the time.

Ignorance here as I haven't read anything other that The Hobbit.

But after reading some comments..
If the orcs ca.e from fallen elves.
Could their speech and capacity be better in this series?
And then by the time we've gotten to LOTR they have degraded in character?

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 It should have been loyalty to the Valar and friendship with the elves.

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Galadriel trying to emphasize and exploit an angle for her benefit does not exclude what you want.

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But that would make Adar older than any other elf in Middle Earth at the time.

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Yep, it would. And would explore one of the more tragic parts of Tolkien's universe

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Yep, it would. And would explore one of the more tragic parts of Tolkien's universe

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And by the way, didn’t realize this, but apparently Galadriel is Gil-Galad’s great aunt. He followed the Flight of the Noldor as a child. Them treating Galadriel as if she’s a spring chicken and young and naive is ridiculous. I believe she’s the oldest elf in Middle Earth at this time after Cirdan the Shipwright.

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She's not naive, she's fixated- she's on the hunt for Sauron the way the Mossad was after Mengele. She wants to find Sauron and take him out, before he causes trouble.

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I mean I understand, but no one was in denial that Mengele was out there. The Mossad agents who captured Eichmann almost got Mengele as well, but they had to depart quickly because the Argentinian authorities were against them and had to get the frick out of there.

But if Sauron was anyone in Morgoth’s equivalent of the Third Reich, it was definitely Heydrich. Had he survived his assassination in 1942 and Hitler succeeded in his grand plans, I do think Heydrich would have been his most likely successor, despite being below Himmler, Goering, Goebbels, and Bormann in ranking. It wouldn’t surprise me if he inspired Sauron from Tolkien’s perspective:



Yeah, give him long hair and pointed ears, that is Annatar for sure.

Cont...

the results of that war, with the creation of Numenor, opened a (sadly, predictable) can of worms.

Men had now seen the Valar firsthand in their glory, knew the Elves were immortal and going to live with/alongside them, and Men themselves get... an island. They also got longer lifespans, up to 4-5 hundred years, maybe directly as a gift, or maybe due to the blossoming of their culture and medicine (and much other knowledge). But, still not immortal, still restricted from directly seeing these great Valar, who don't seem to make road trips.
If you know history and human nature, you can guess the results- eventually, a large portion began to both resent the Elves, and later the Valar themselves. Similarly, as their civilization advanced, they began to think more ambitiously on their own place in the grand scheme of things.

Add to the mix Sauron, master of manipulation and lies (second only in all history to Morgoth, his master), to throw gas on the smoldering resentment-

And that's where this show is.