re: The Fall of Wokeness

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Is that skepticism earned or unearned?

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The level of preemptive bullshite flung is not in proportion to any earned skepticism.

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You should see Watchmen

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Wokeeness didn't kill watchmen. The shitty last 3 episodes did

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some people will hate anything SJW, regardless of quality.

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You missed the point that many people don't like the injection of SJW/political bullshite in to movies designed to entertain and provide an escape from the fact we're surrounded by politics 24/7 now. So by default when this happens, the quality goes to shite for them.

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Woke obviously doesn't sell, yet they continue to push this agenda. How much money do these projects have to lose to stop this?

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Why do you care. It's there money that's being wasted, not yours. Let them continue to bankrupt themselves. Money talks, and is the only thing that matters in hollywood. This phase of wokeness won't stand the test of time.

It had potential.

I would have preferred starting with the Looking Glass episode and going forward exploring a world as a noir and slowly rebuilding to the vigilante stuff. A reconstruction since the book already handled the deconstruction. Keep Jon out. Have Veidt active in the conspiracy still. Laurie and Dan retired and somehow the start of the latest unraveling of Veidt's plan. Then have Jon come back at the end (since nothing ever ends) to birth actual superheroes.

It seems like that's what they wanted to aim for but they got lost in the Veidt cartoon, the KKK shenanigans, and the Watchmen nods to justify the title.

This has to be a troll thread.

These can't be serious examples of "wokeness" failures

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if that were the case, then Captain Marvel would have tanked

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Both Black Panther and Captain Marvel would have done much, much worse at the box office if a DVD version of each of them were going to be released prior to the Avengers films that followed them.

That is the only reason I saw Black Panther in the theater. Learned my lesson from that and skipped Captain Marvel until it got a DVD release.

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Eh, I'm not convinced that it's just any perception of politics.

This thread is based on Dark Phoenix being "woke" because the protagonist is female. No one labels a male protagonist led movie as being political.

You have people in here claiming Black Panther is a "woke" movie. Is it any more or less political to have a white superhero?

There comes a point where if you use the standards some people in this thread are using, everything is political. Male = conservative. Female = liberal. Neither = super liberal.

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Exactly.

Dark Phoenix is a storyline from the 80s that was insanely popular, and is often considered the BEST X-Men storyline (or top 5 minimum). Of course they keep trying to recreate it. Was Jean Grey becoming the Dark Phoenix back in the 80s an example "woke" culture?

Black Panther proved to be a VERY popular character when he was introduced in Civil War. People just thought he was a badass character. The fact that he was popular meant that Marvel felt comfortable making a movie about him set in Wakanda, which is a very interesting setting for a movie. Black Panther had his first appearance in July 1966; he's not some new invention.


Yes, some movies either try to hard to be "woke" or insert bad ideas and then cover them up with a political message or handling. The Ghostbusters 2016 movie is a good example of this - people dismissed legitimate criticisms as being sexist.


I see there being basically a few issues with the debates that surround these:

1. Movies being labeled "SJW" when they are not.
2. Movie creators dismissing legitimate criticisms as being "racist" or "sexist"
3. Being more inclusive simply for the sake of being more inclusive.

Number 3, for example, can cause issues.

I want to say, let's look at some Marvel characters that were follow-ups to legacy characters done RIGHT, one that started well and got TERRIBLE, and some done wrong.

Legacy characters done correctly:
Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) and Spider-Man (Miles Morales)

Both were characters that were legacies to established heroes (Carol Danvers' Ms. Marvel - now Captain Marvel, and Peter Parker). One took over an empty role left behind (Ms. Marvel) and the other took over the death of the original but in an alternate universe (the incredibly popular Ultimate universe - Spider-Man). Both were good ways of introducing minorities into roles that were already created and had a built-in fanbase, but still giving them uniqueness on their own (though Miles' suffered from being a Peter clone in the comics - personality wise - and it was Into the Spiderverse that truly established him as having a VERY unique personality).

On the flip side, the introduction of Jane Foster as Thor in the comics was received very poorly because it was built on the deconstruction and tearing down of Thor. Her definition of worthiness isn't well explained (a lot of people battle cancer on Earth, but that alone can't be enough), and if they do it in the movie I cannot think of anything Jane has done in the Thor movies to make her worthy. An example of BAD inclusion.

Then there's the unique character, America Chavez. She started off as an interesting, young character until she started getting absurdly overpowered (like monkey stomp Superman, Supergirl, and the entire JLA at once powerful), giving cringe-inducing dialogue, and just a slew of other issues.

Sometimes these things are the result of an executive mandate. Something like, "We want a new Ghostbusters movie, but they have to all be women. Also, they all have to be telling jokes." This is disastrous. No one is constantly telling jokes in the original Ghostbusters, and the only movies I can think of that are non-stop jokes are over-the-top parodies like Airplane! (which does it well).

At the end of the day, though, if you're "The Kid who Cried Woke", then your opinion will be dismissed just as quickly as the person who never sees an agenda no matter what.

I still don't get why people are triggered by female films or female leads or minority based movies. They never had a problem in the past:
A League of Their Own
Thelma and Louise
Alien Franchise
Sarah Connor in The Terminator
Tomb Raider
Resident Evil
Aeon Flux
The Color Purple
Do The Right Thing
Boyz in the Hood
Catwoman
Elektra
Kill Bill
The Hunger Games
GI Jane
Silence of the Lambs
Etc. Etc. Etc

If those movies are made today people would bitch about Hollywood being woke. Just enjoy the movie and quit looking for thing to get outraged over because you are insecure about yourself.