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Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:45 am to Boss
First off, really enjoyed the film and came away with much more positive to say than when I saw Phantom Menace the first time (and I came away immediately with issues and poking holes in the continuity errors on that film). Aside from getting a bit glassy-eyed when being re-introduced to Han, Leia, Chewie, etc, I really dug the new cast members and didn't feel like any did a bad job. Again, compared to the prequels, on Episode I I really only enjoyed Qui Gon, unnecessary character he was notwithstanding, and Palpatine. Even though I came to feel Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan was the best performance in that trilogy, that only really began in Episode II. But I liked Finn, Rey, Poe, and yep, BB-8 right from the start and can't wait to see them again.
As I said in blueboy's separate post, I really enjoyed Adam Driver's performance as Kylo Ren. He plays a character who desperately want to be Darth Vader but is just not getting it done right, despite his viciousness in the villlage on Jakku and his killing of his father. What works so well is where he tries and fails at being a badd arse Sith-wannabe. He isn't able to construct a perfect lightsaber, instead building one that is jagged and rough and not smooth and sleek. He doesn't intimidate the Tarkin-like guy, nor does anyone cower before him. He royally screws up when in his arrogance kidnaps Rey to discover Luke's location instead of making sure to take the droid. I'm fascinated because I don't see him as being the true villain of this trilogy--instead, I see him maybe being turned back to the light by Episode IX.
This is where a theory (well, really more of an idea) cropped up tonight for me, a story idea that I know I am going to be crucified for, because even as I thought it I could not believe I liked it and almost hate myself for liking it. So Kylo Ren's whole deal is "wanting to finish what [Darth Vader] started," right? Well, we know in Return of the Jedi that Vader, at the end, went back to the Light Side and reverted back to being Anakin Skywalker. So Ren is basing his whole being on what is basically a lie, as his grandfather, in the end, turned against the Empire and the Dark Side. What is, in Episode VIII or IX, Anakin himself, called on by Luke, confronts Ren and turns him back to Ben Solo so as to defeat Snoke once and for all.
Yes, this is me advocating actually embracing Lucas's alteration of adding in Hayden Christiansen as Force Ghost Anakin and justifying it by bringing Hayden BACK as Anakin and redeem his performance as Anakin by having him be directed by a better director while working off a better script. By doing this, you could also correct the whole "how does Luke know Hayden is Anakin when he saw Sebastian Shaw as Anakin" problem. Have a flashback with Luke and Anakin talking right after the end of Jedi (and use the Michael Douglas "Ant-Man de-aging" CG to make this scene work. Again, I almost hate myself for wanting Hayden Christiansen back as Anakin, but I think it could actually work and imagine if doing so helps eliminate the bad taste his performance left in everyone's mouth!
As I said in blueboy's separate post, I really enjoyed Adam Driver's performance as Kylo Ren. He plays a character who desperately want to be Darth Vader but is just not getting it done right, despite his viciousness in the villlage on Jakku and his killing of his father. What works so well is where he tries and fails at being a badd arse Sith-wannabe. He isn't able to construct a perfect lightsaber, instead building one that is jagged and rough and not smooth and sleek. He doesn't intimidate the Tarkin-like guy, nor does anyone cower before him. He royally screws up when in his arrogance kidnaps Rey to discover Luke's location instead of making sure to take the droid. I'm fascinated because I don't see him as being the true villain of this trilogy--instead, I see him maybe being turned back to the light by Episode IX.
This is where a theory (well, really more of an idea) cropped up tonight for me, a story idea that I know I am going to be crucified for, because even as I thought it I could not believe I liked it and almost hate myself for liking it. So Kylo Ren's whole deal is "wanting to finish what [Darth Vader] started," right? Well, we know in Return of the Jedi that Vader, at the end, went back to the Light Side and reverted back to being Anakin Skywalker. So Ren is basing his whole being on what is basically a lie, as his grandfather, in the end, turned against the Empire and the Dark Side. What is, in Episode VIII or IX, Anakin himself, called on by Luke, confronts Ren and turns him back to Ben Solo so as to defeat Snoke once and for all.
Yes, this is me advocating actually embracing Lucas's alteration of adding in Hayden Christiansen as Force Ghost Anakin and justifying it by bringing Hayden BACK as Anakin and redeem his performance as Anakin by having him be directed by a better director while working off a better script. By doing this, you could also correct the whole "how does Luke know Hayden is Anakin when he saw Sebastian Shaw as Anakin" problem. Have a flashback with Luke and Anakin talking right after the end of Jedi (and use the Michael Douglas "Ant-Man de-aging" CG to make this scene work. Again, I almost hate myself for wanting Hayden Christiansen back as Anakin, but I think it could actually work and imagine if doing so helps eliminate the bad taste his performance left in everyone's mouth!
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:45 am to PRK
quote:
Boyega holding his own with a light saber was the most irritating part of the movie for me.
Was he? He faced off with a Stormtrooper and almost got killed by him, with only Han to save his arse. Then he gets his arse handed to him by Kylo. He wasn't holding his own, just holding a lightsaber for its true master Rey.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:47 am to PRK
quote:I can understand this complaint, it was an easy way out IMO, but I also understand why.
Second most irritating: can we get a new plot that doesn't include giant space lasers and a trench and an x-wing?
quote:If you consider light sabers Jedi only weapons, then I'd agree. But I think this was more plot disguise.
Boyega holding his own with a light saber was the most irritating part of the movie for me.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:47 am to The_Joker
quote:
Because we've only seen that move by advance Jedi masters
In the movies, yes. In the shows (which are canon) we see apprentices doing it.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:48 am to Breesus
If we are going by the "never died" theory then there would have been 3 multiple times with darth maul count doku and Vader with Sidious and Plageous both alive during all of them. So it would have to be him reincarnated.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:49 am to Breesus
quote:
Darth Plageous re-incarnated or never dead. Darth Sidious's master and trainer and the possible true basically father to Anakin. His plan may have been to kill Sideous when Anakin was old enough but Sidious got the jump on him. The defacto great grandfather of Kylo and Rey.
Can we have just one major character not related to everyone in the movie?
huge universe, and everyone is everyone's father 
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:49 am to ell_13
I just got back from watching the movie so I haven't had time to read most of this thread except for this page, but if anyone didn't like that movie they just need to give up on Star Wars. That movie had the feel of the OT. Yeah, some of the storylines were a little rushed. But it was the very definition of a Star Wars movie in the mold of the OT.
I'm going to bed, but I'll pick up in this thread tomorrow. But seriously, if you didn't like that then go ahead and quit Star Wars all together.
I'm going to bed, but I'll pick up in this thread tomorrow. But seriously, if you didn't like that then go ahead and quit Star Wars all together.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:49 am to PRK
quote:
Can someone explain what the fricking galactic political situation is?
Here's what i gathered.
The First Order is an extremely powerful and large political power in the galaxy.
The other main government in power in the galaxy is The Republic.
Think Soviet Russia and United States in the cold war.
THe First Order is backed and controlled by The Sith as was the Empire before it. The Sith are largely unknown to the public if known at all.
The Republic is the government of a collection of planets. They are not directly at war with The First Order, though they do have high tension and battles.
The resistance is a counter to the Sith and actively at war against the First Order. They are "secretly" backed by the Republic.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:49 am to JabarkusRussell
quote:You and blue should fight.
Adam Driver stole the show.
quote:You and blue should make love.
lets be honest, the guy looks like he is a circus freak with his enormous ears.
quote:Fight back on.
However, he really impressed me with not just his acting
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:49 am to drizztiger
quote:
If you consider light sabers Jedi only weapons, then I'd agree. But I think this was more plot disguise.
Yeah, Finn with the lightsaber was a clear red herring. I could tell that from the damn poster. Rey's the main character and likely Luke's daughter. Of course that lightsaber will be her's and not a random Stormtroopers.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:51 am to tiger25
quote:
If we are going by the "never died" theory then there would have been 3 multiple times with darth maul count doku and Vader with Sidious and Plageous both alive during all of them.
An almost dead and dying Plageous working to rebuild himself and regain control and consciousness wouldnt exactly be a powerful Sith Lord. You could say Sidious stripped Plageous of his Sith Master title when he almost killed him.
And the "rule of two" is a largely made up thing that I dont fully buy into.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:53 am to Breesus
quote:
And the "rule of two" is a largely made up thing that I dont fully buy into.
Came from yoda in episode 1 or 2 (can't remember which one)
The theory is really good though and can see them using that.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 12:55 am
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:54 am to PattyRay38
quote:
Yes, this is me advocating actually embracing Lucas's alteration of adding in Hayden Christiansen as Force Ghost Anakin and justifying it by bringing Hayden BACK as Anakin and redeem his performance as Anakin by having him be directed by a better director while working off a better script.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:54 am to Bamatab
quote:
if anyone didn't like that movie they just need to give up on Star Wars. That movie had the feel of the OT.
I didn't hate it, but it was far from great. Lived up to my expectations after the prequels.
The movie was definitely the original Star Wars' Disney-fied. A movie that felt like it was made for pre-teens. Meh.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:54 am to tiger25
quote:
Came from yoda in episode 1 or 2 (can't remember which one)
Which means it never happened.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:55 am to tiger25
quote:
Came from yoda in episode 1 or 2 (can't remember which one)
It is a Sith Rule. A mantra the live by. It doesnt mean no one in the universe can be swayed to the dark side if two people already are.
That's what im saying.
Sidious almost kills Plagueis and assumes he is dead. Plageuis is so weak he must hide and rebuild himself.
Sidious, with Plagueis out of the picture, becomes the new Sith Master and trains Vader.
This post was edited on 12/18/15 at 12:58 am
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:55 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:56 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If it's supposed to be a Bond chick and she's not hot, then yes that's an issue, but I don't really care here. He just looks like a guy with a big nose to me, and he actually kind of looks like Harrison Ford to be honest.
Yeah. They could be brothers. But yeah, obviously the script called for a talentless actor. That's why he was cast. I'm so unfair.
Posted on 12/18/15 at 12:57 am to ell_13
I feel that when the trilogy is watched as a whole, saving him for the later films will make more sense. That doesn’t mean that I will like it in the moment, however. The film makers could have still told the story they wanted to tell by having Luke show up in the third and final act to save the day. Having a green Rey who has no Jedi training handle her own vs a skilled swordsman like Kylo Ren was insulting.
Not only was the man trained by the great Luke Skywalker but he was also trained by Supreme Leader Snoke. Imagine Luke showing up Vader before he was even trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan in the original films. A scrub isn’t coming off of the bench to beat Lebron in his first game of one on one.
As far as Rey, Daisy Ridley was another bright spot. She lights up the screen with her infectious smile and charisma. The future of Star Wars is in good hands with it’s new lead. John Boyega’s Finn was also a welcome addition. He has some great one-liners aided by the return of writer Lawrence Kasdan. Gone are the flunky lines of the prequels like, “You are going to pay for all of the Jedi you killed today, Dooku”.
Finn exhibited great bravery in his battle with Kylo but as Bib Fortuna said in Return of the Jedi, “He’s no Jedi”. It showed by how over-powered he was. While I enjoyed the character, I also felt that he served his purpose and probably should have died. It would have given Rey the extra motivation she needed to pick up her presumed father’s saber after being repulsed by it earlier in the film.
Not only was the man trained by the great Luke Skywalker but he was also trained by Supreme Leader Snoke. Imagine Luke showing up Vader before he was even trained by Yoda and Obi-Wan in the original films. A scrub isn’t coming off of the bench to beat Lebron in his first game of one on one.
As far as Rey, Daisy Ridley was another bright spot. She lights up the screen with her infectious smile and charisma. The future of Star Wars is in good hands with it’s new lead. John Boyega’s Finn was also a welcome addition. He has some great one-liners aided by the return of writer Lawrence Kasdan. Gone are the flunky lines of the prequels like, “You are going to pay for all of the Jedi you killed today, Dooku”.
Finn exhibited great bravery in his battle with Kylo but as Bib Fortuna said in Return of the Jedi, “He’s no Jedi”. It showed by how over-powered he was. While I enjoyed the character, I also felt that he served his purpose and probably should have died. It would have given Rey the extra motivation she needed to pick up her presumed father’s saber after being repulsed by it earlier in the film.
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