re: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread ***SPOILERS***

if you're going to force in characters like Han, Leia, and Luke, it's a lot more interesting to see then deal with power. it's easy to be a rebel trying to tear everything down. it's much harder to maintain integrity when you're in power and have to make difficult decisions (that hurt people more often than not)

it plays perfectly into the whole darkside/force dichotomy

OK back to 2 major issues with TLJ

1. The "Intellectual" Argument

A major problem with this argument and just the setup of the film itself. there are 2 undercurrents running about what "Star Wars" is. there are the people who love the themes, characters, and messages of the OT who cherish them. then, apparently, there are people who claim to love those things but really have a deep-seeded hatred of the way those variables were presented (Too male, too white, etc).

JJ added some forced diversity into TFA which wasn't jarring. now progressives who denied it was forced diversity were just lying, and that became a discussion point, but whatever. a female lead and force user and a random black storm trooper aren't anything major. JJ, however, kept the central themes and stories intact (too much in terms of story but that's another argument an not the point here).

Rian Johnson apparently does not like anything about the OT (or feels that he can only be creative and "intellectual" without constraints). he ignored, destroyed, and shite on the very ethos of the OT. he went beyond just forced diversity and literally forced an entirely new universe onto the NT. this deconstruction of Star Wars is being hailed as some sort of intellectual feat, but it's really nothing more than throwing a temper tantrum and breaking things irrationally.

there is nothing intellectual with completely changing the main character (Luke) for no real reason and without any real justification. any sort of "intellectual" derivative flowing from this bastardization is therefore without any real merit. since RJ irrationally "deconstructed" Luke, any questions pseudo-intellectuals pose in response are themselves irrational and without any real merit. all this is, is irrational randomness and that carries no intellectual weight (post modernism is bullshite)

but it isn't even a smart deconstruction. RJ basically just says "OK i'm completely changing the Force and Luke without any real justification because I want to" and that's that. that is literally the opposite of being intellectual. forcing diversity of race/sex is something that is minimally invasive and can work. forcing diversity of the underlying tenets of the story cannot work. that's why TLJ is such a failure and why the universe is basically destroyed. this is no longer Star Wars. this is an over-complicated Hollywood "eye candy" movie using Star Wars properties, but it's not "Star Wars"

2. Rey

just as the forced feminism ironically ruins the character of Admiral Holdo (because the writing was so focused on showing men and masculine traits be wrong than make the overall character be right), the forced diversity of Rey basically ruins her character

Rey in TFA had major potential. she was a naive, positive, and downright electric character. she was going to follow a similar path to Luke but it was set up for her to do it in a completely different and fresh method (no set master/guide initially, likely no familial connection, facing a weaker and more conflicted foil, etc). there was a lot of good to work with

however, since she became a symbol of this unnecessary pro-woman stance in the producers and writers, they have neutered her character entirely. in the OT, Luke had doubts. Luke failed. Luke was far from perfect. these issues led to characterization and development into one of the most beloved characters of a generation (and just a really good example of how to build a character over time for all movies).

Rey is not allowed to face internal struggle or fail. the pro-female faction will not allow her to be seen as weak, bad, evil, or anything negative so that the general public doesn't have a negative thing to say about her. this completely neuters her character and its ability to grow. TFA allowed development but TLJ closed that door. Rey is who she was in TFA and that's that. she's good. she's strong. she's unwavering in her strength and goodness. she's perfect and that's that.

Rey has no room for development. she's been made too powerful too soon. she's been made without any flinching of diversion from the Force and as capable as a trained Sith who Luke says is incredibly powerful himself. in a narrative moment when you think she may have even the slightest question (when Kylo offers her a place by his side), she has no problem rejecting it.

so Rian Johnson and the executive staff killed Rey as a character in TLJ. the face of the franchise is boring, simple, and the opposite of "intellectual". see the development of Luke and the fact that he's a round character allows the potential for a director to destroy him (as RJ did). however, because they're so focused on making a "perfect female" character who will never fail in this way, they remove any potential development and leave us with a boring, bland, and uninteresting mess of a franchise face

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If RJ wanted to be “intellectual”, she should have been the one who was questioning everything, not Ren.

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exactly

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Rey should have taken Ren’s hand and we would have had an interesting direction to head in.

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but then you'd have a man leading the main character (a woman)

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also, it's pretty awesome that a central theme of Rey is her character's biggest hurdle was admitting that she's white trash

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I didn’t think of it that way.

Maybe RJ was right, this movie is so deep that it requires collaboration with multiple other people in order to fully appreciate how awful the writing is.

So intellectual.

I didn’t catch that. I didn’t catch how those kids apparently heard about Luke’s death while everyone involved had only just left the battle.

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I didn’t catch how those kids apparently heard about Luke’s death while everyone involved had only just left the battle.

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don't forget how that one random kid had the force when he grabbed his broom

the force means nothing b/c we all have the force and don't require any training or education to understand/use it

#intellectual

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Force ghosts fighting one another reminiscent of angels and demons fighting in Revelations. Anakin is Archangel Michael while Plageuis is Satan.

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Just kill it now.

Also, that doesn’t make sense. The dark side does not become one with the force. Their whole existence culminates in the want for immortality, thus rejecting the very concept.

That movie doesn’t work at its core.

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Trying to remember, when did Leah and her General devise the plan on how to escape using the smaller vessels? They didn't know they could be tracked and Holdo didn't get into power until Leah was in a coma.

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It’s such a stupid plan because it depends on one thing: they don’t have eyes or binoculars/ telescopes. What are the chances that 10 massive Imperial ships with millions of people isn’t going to check on this?

i'm a big fan of using the universe to do all sorts of shite

imagine a crime thriller set on some outer planet during the rebellion, with imperial guards having to deal with all sorts of internal and external pressures

or a horror movie. tons of space for horror-suspense movies

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The Jedi texts are destroyed.

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I haven't read the 95 pages that follow yet, so someone may have pointed this out, but the Jedi texts appeared to be aboard the Falcon when Finn opened a drawer and got a blanket to put over Rose at the very end. My assumption was that Rey grabbed them before she left Luke's island.