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Message
re: Star Wars 8: Will Hayden Christensen Return as Darth Vader?
Posted on 9/22/15 at 8:30 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 9/22/15 at 8:30 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Plus Anakin wasn't tempted by the Dark Side, he was tricked by Palpatine in the name of love. Anakin should have consciously chosen the Dark Side, and I'd say the clear scene to do it in is murdering Mace Windu
I agree. George was trying for exposition on Luke's claim in Jedi that he could "still feel the good" in his father. Anakin never fully gave himself over to the dark side.
Making Anakin a composition of unconditional love and pursuit of power cheapens the effect of Vader in the original trilogy. This is a guy that willingly destroyed planets, razed villages, force choked people that disagreed with him. The Vader of the Original Trilogy was a man drunk with the power of the dark side.
When Yoda and Luke are discussing the Force in Empire, Luke asks if the dark side is stronger, to which Yoda replies no, but easier. This aligns with Vaders portrayal.
1
Posted on 9/22/15 at 9:47 am to elprez00
Palpatine was grooming snaking from the start but when a skin rescued his mother by killing all the sand people was the true turning point of him leaning towards the dark side.
Then he was convinced that through the dark side he would be able to save his loves life.
As far as Obi wan once thinking like that. He did try to reason with a skin at the end of 3 but all a skin could see was that he (anakin) had killed his wife out of anger thinking that she had brought Obi wan to the planet to kill him. In other words everyone he ever cared about was dead or had betrayed him except for palpatine. Which we all know to be untrue based off of 4-6.
The greatest deceit came from palpatine.
Then he was convinced that through the dark side he would be able to save his loves life.
As far as Obi wan once thinking like that. He did try to reason with a skin at the end of 3 but all a skin could see was that he (anakin) had killed his wife out of anger thinking that she had brought Obi wan to the planet to kill him. In other words everyone he ever cared about was dead or had betrayed him except for palpatine. Which we all know to be untrue based off of 4-6.
The greatest deceit came from palpatine.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 10:00 am to bulldog95
What people don't often realize is that the prequels were much closer to George Lucas' original vision for Star Wars. On the whole, I think the most glaring problem with them from a story standpoint was having Episode I set 10 years before Episode II and instead of the Clone Wars beginning with Episode I, they began at the end of Episode II and pretty much ended in the first half hour of Episode III, those who watch only the movies, never see Anakin's relationship with Obi-wan develop over time. In Episode II, Obi-Wan is like the father of a spoiled child, yet in Episode III, they are best friends.
Watching TCW series really helps fill in the gaps, but most aren't going to bother.
Watching TCW series really helps fill in the gaps, but most aren't going to bother.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 10:40 am to RLDSC FAN
I hope not. He couldn't act worth a damn. Was very wooden.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 11:00 am to RLDSC FAN
Has there ever been a more appropriate time for the Michael Scott Nooooooo gif than this possible news?
No one can possibly be stupid enough to do this right?
No one can possibly be stupid enough to do this right?
Posted on 9/22/15 at 11:21 am to bulldog95
quote:
Then he was convinced that through the dark side he would be able to save his loves life.
But he was not convinced or seduced by the dark side: he was seduced by love. Anakin should have been a much more Macbeth like character, in that while initially decent, he consciously uses the Dark Side in order to increase his power and rule the Galaxy. Anakin doesn't really seem all that power hungry in the prequels and simply driven by love.
Like in my scenario where Anakin kills Windu and Maul at the same time, he will initially blame the Emperor for setting up that little meeting, but the Emperor will point out that he never forced Anakin to kill Windu; Anakin made that choice on his own. The Emperor outs Anakin to the Jedi for killing Windu, forcing Anakin to fight for his life, which he thinks means hunting them down, since Anakin is not powerful enough to defeat the Emperor on his own. Think this would have been much more satisfying instead of Anakin just being tricked into joining the Emperor, and also sets up his loathing for his master and his ongoing plot to overthrow him.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 11:24 am to OMLandshark
quote:
But he was not convinced or seduced by the dark side: he was seduced by love. Anakin should have been a much more Macbeth like character, in that while initially decent, he consciously uses the Dark Side in order to increase his power and rule the Galaxy. Anakin doesn't really seem all that power hungry in the prequels and simply driven by love.
Which is in complete contradiction of the concept. "The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions" does not apply to the Force. The Dark Side is fueled by hate, anger. Love is a direct contradiction to hate. Vader could never become the most powerful Sith Lord if his motivation was misguided love.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 11:26 am to elprez00
Attachment breeds fear. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 11:59 am to BulldogXero
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:01 pm to elprez00
quote:
Which is in complete contradiction of the concept. "The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions" does not apply to the Force. The Dark Side is fueled by hate, anger. Love is a direct contradiction to hate. Vader could never become the most powerful Sith Lord if his motivation was misguided love.
I very much disagree w/that. The saying "there is a thin line between love and hate" is legit. Being crazy in love can make you do crazy arse shite.
Just look at all the nutters who drop a murder/suicide on their family when life doesn't go the way they hoped.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:05 pm to Dr RC
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:21 pm to StrongBackWeakMind
It's all there. Fear over leaving his mother, hate of the sand people that killed her, anger and resentment over trust issues with the Jedi council, and and unquenched thirst for power (thinking he rivals Yoda's dueling skills, Obi-wan is holding me back, not granted rank of jedi master, power to stop Padme from dying, etc)
This post was edited on 9/22/15 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:51 pm to BulldogXero
Not to mention he then lost most of his body and health after the duel on Mustafar. He then thought he killed his wife (and child).
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:51 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
viewers who believe that it was George Lucas’ directing, not Christensen’s capability, that undercut the punch of Anakin Skywalker’s journey from kid-hero to youngling killer.
I hate the prequels but I do believe that this is the issue.
If you doubt Christensen's acting ability, go watch "Life as a House" and get back to me.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 12:56 pm to BulldogXero
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/28/15 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 1:00 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
It's all there. Fear over leaving his mother, hate of the sand people that killed her, anger and resentment over trust issues with the Jedi council, and and unquenched thirst for power (thinking he rivals Yoda's dueling skills, Obi-wan is holding me back, not granted rank of jedi master, power to stop Padme from dying, etc)
Anakin bitching about power wasn't about power: it was about respect and recognition. None of that had to do with power in and of itself, something Vader is clearly obsessed with. His lust for power really comes out of nowhere to be honest. Love and affection are clearly what Anakin wants in the prequels, not power.
This post was edited on 9/22/15 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 1:52 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
None of that had to do with power in and of itself, something Vader is clearly obsessed with
All Sith crave power. That doesn't have to mean power in and of itself is the reason they fall to the dark side, but in the end, they are defined by their lust for power. By the end if Revenge of the Sith, Anakin had completely given I to the dark side. That is why he begins talking about overthrowing Palpatine.
A need for power and control is well represented in Anakin's fall even if it is a singular piece to the puzzle. His ultimate goal was to be powerful enough to control the fates of his loved ones. Let's also not forget his conversation with Padme on Naboo where (I will paraphrase) he says politicians should be made to agree by a dictator.
This post was edited on 9/22/15 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 2:54 pm to BulldogXero
All the ingredients that led to Anakin's downfall were there and are fine IMO. Once the Dark Side took him over he was powerless to control it. He said as much repeatedly to Luke in that he doesn't know the power of the Dark Side.
The only thing that snapped him out of it in the end was the thing that led him down the path to the Dark Side to begin with, love. He finally realized that it was Palpatine who had manipulated him all along and cost him the people he loved and now he was going to kill his son, the only one since he turned who ever showed any love towards him. Luke saved him by showing him love.
As for the prequels, I thought 3 was the best effort. Actually pretty good subplots with the political intrigue. Dialogue was horrible though. I don't mind the main plot points of the prequals of how Anakin got where he was but they just could have been done differently and not so hokey. Also could have been much more Clone Wars stuff and showed the bond between Anakin and Obi One better, since there are tons of references to the Clone Wars in episode 4 and is pretty much the basis for where they start the original trilogy.
The only thing that snapped him out of it in the end was the thing that led him down the path to the Dark Side to begin with, love. He finally realized that it was Palpatine who had manipulated him all along and cost him the people he loved and now he was going to kill his son, the only one since he turned who ever showed any love towards him. Luke saved him by showing him love.
As for the prequels, I thought 3 was the best effort. Actually pretty good subplots with the political intrigue. Dialogue was horrible though. I don't mind the main plot points of the prequals of how Anakin got where he was but they just could have been done differently and not so hokey. Also could have been much more Clone Wars stuff and showed the bond between Anakin and Obi One better, since there are tons of references to the Clone Wars in episode 4 and is pretty much the basis for where they start the original trilogy.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 3:00 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Anakin bitching about power wasn't about power: it was about respect and recognition
Isn't that a pretty normal starting point to one's quest for more and more power?
Posted on 9/22/15 at 4:18 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
If you doubt Christensen's acting ability, go watch "Life as a House" and get back to me.
I thought he was pretty solid in Shattered Glass as well.
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